House Homeland Security & Public Safety and House Youth Health & Safety – June 23, 2022

The House Committee on Homeland Security & Public Safety met jointly with the House Special Committee on Youth Health & Safety on June 23, 2022. The two committees discussed multiple interim charges, including the implementation of SB 11 (86R), firearm safety in Texas, and the preparedness and coordination of state and local law enforcement agencies. An agenda of the hearing can be found here. A recording of the hearing can be found here.

This report is intended to give you an overview and highlight of the various topics taken up. It is not a verbatim transcript of the discussions but is based upon what was audible or understandable to the observer and the desire to get details out as quickly as possible with few errors or omissions.

Opening Remarks:

• Chair White – Lays out interim charges #1-3, will cover charges #4 and #5 at a later date
  • Purpose of hearing is to investigate
  • People are hurting and inquiring, will investigate what needs to be done and what resources are needed to get it done, who will get it done and who will be held accountable
• Chair Lozano – Thanks Members on both Committees, ready to find solutions

 

Jazmin Cazares, Sister, Uvalde Shooting Victim

• Lost her little sister and cousin in the Uvalde shooting
• Security policies of the UCISD did not protect her sister and the children of Uvalde
  • UCISD website stated security was only located at secondary campuses
• Threat assessment teams failed, 10 days before Uvalde shooter posted threats on social media
  • States red flag laws are needed, weapon of shooter could have been confiscated after he was determined a threat to himself and others
• School security and fencing failed, classroom locked door policy failed, adding secondary locks could have saved lives and prevented shooting
• TCOLE active shooting training course requires 8 hours, advocating for standards to be raised for teachers and staff, training is not adequate as they are
• Argues that the shooter should never have had access to a firearm, claims background checks are needed and could have prevented the shooter from acquiring firearm
• Pleads with Legislature to pass “gun safety legislation”
• King – Thanks witness for testifying
• Lozano – Tell us something about Jackie, your little sister
  • She was an exact copy of me, she loved singing and dancing
• Neave – Thanks witness for testifying, and thanks witness for raising issues of red flag laws and gun safety legislation
• Gonzalez – Thanks witness for testifying, the community of El Paso understands, hopes issues can be addressed for the people of El Paso and Uvalde
• Johnson – Can you describe to us what it is like to be a student and your experience with active shooter drills?
  • No one takes it seriously until it happens, the only reports we received on the day of the shooting were from the media, terrified for her life to go back to school
• Johnson – How many years have you done active shooter drills?
  • Since pre-k, 16 years
• Goodwin – Thanks witness for testifying, hopes Gov. Abbott and Lt. Gov. Patrick are listening and will act

 

Andrew Pollack, Father, Parkland Shooting Victim

• Did not testify due to sound not working

 

The Honorable Suzanna Hupp, Former State Representative

• Survived the Luby’s Massacre in 1991, shooter drove through restaurant window and started shooting at civilians
• Both parents were murdered, 23 people were murdered
• She followed Texas law at the time and was not allowed to carry a concealed weapon, her gun was in her car at the time, claims that if she had a weapon, she could have taken it out
• A gun is a tool, can be used to kill a family but can also be used to protect a family
• Pleads with Members to remember the Second Amendment
• Banning large capacity magazines is ineffective, reloading a small magazine takes 1 second
• Argues for a consistent age to purchase for different items, cannot send an 18-year-old overseas with an AK and not let them protect their family at home
• Waiting periods are worthless, they affect the good guys too
• For universal background checks, but states that most mass shooters would have passed one
• Advocates for hardening schools, leave it up to districts to what works best
• Recommends outlawing gun free zones so teachers can be armed
• Need to establish a standard protocol for handling tips about potentially threatening students; recommends a threat assessment rather than a risk assessment
• White – What is the time period for your recommendations?
  • I am not an expert
• White – There are other security measures we need to focus on, security techniques in Israel to look into, security equals safety
• Bowers – In the situation of an active shooter, I don’t know if I would want anyone else to have a gun other than law enforcement, expresses concerns with lack of training
  • The statistics just don’t bear that out, when there is an armed citizen in the area, the possible just doesn’t happen, civilians stopped the UT shooter with their own guns
• Bowers – In that moment, would you have been prepared to shoot?
  • Yes
• Bowers – Was at the Dallas Police Officer shooting, my daughter had a panic attack, expresses concerns that other people would not have been prepared
• Goodwin – You said by making every gun purchase go through a background check, it would be a de-facto registration system, I don’t understand your argument against this, wouldn’t tightening up this step eliminate some deaths?
  • Western Europe has a higher death rate in mass shootings, I don’t believe universal background checks would make any difference, personally does not believe how many guns are out there
• Goodwin – The comparison to Western Europe is not comparable, we need to do something for our children
• Johnson – Who invited you to present testimony today?
  • Chairman White
• Johnson – Have you continued to do any work regarding public policy, public health, or safety?
  • In a secondary way, since I am not in the Legislature anymore
• Johnson – You advocated getting rid of gun free zones, were you aware the NRA convention in Houston was a gun free zone?
  • Yes

 

Ted Holladay, Senior Analyst, Legislative Budget Board

• Provides overview on school safety programs authorized in 86^th and 87^th Legislative Sessions, mainly SB 11 (86R)
• School safety and security grants funding was included in SB 500 (86R), $100M provided by Economic Stabilization fund, program was authorized under SB 11 (86R), provides funding to LEAs for infrastructure improvements for safety at public schools
• Provides overview of the school safety allotment established under SB 11 (86R), allotment per student based on attendance
• SB 11 expanded the scope of the School Safety Center, required each district to prepare an EOP, or emergency operation plan, required to be multi-hazard
• ALERT program, received funding from GAA during 86^th Legislative Session
• Neave – Can you tell us how many districts were awarded school safety grants?
  • Every district in the state received at least $25,000 or the minimum award amount, a district like Dallas got substantially more than that
• Goodwin – Was there a loan repayment programs in SB 11 for mental health counselors?
  • We were asked to focus on programs at TEA and Texas State, possible that program is located in a different agency

 

Jimmy Perdue, President, TPCA; Stan Standridge, Police Chief, San Marcos; Neil Noakes, Police Chief, Fort Worth; Ken Culbreth, Police Chief, Spring ISD; Scot Rubin, Police Chief, Blanco; Todd Hunter, Police Chief, Kilgore

• Perdue – Apologizes to victims of Uvalde for police failure that occurred
  • Providing comments on prevention, response, and review
  • Provides whitepaper with suggestions given to Texas House last session, states most recommendations were not implemented
• Standridge – Provides specific recommendations on behalf of TPCA
  • Stop check-box training, idea that officer will retain information from a training years after the training occurred, trainings must be topical and recurring
  • ALERT level one Operator Course, 16 hours long, this must be part of every police officer academy, current training is inadequate for many officers
  • 0 hours of school shooter training is required for command officers, this needs to change, ideally 8-16 hours of training should be required
  • Course 2195, a part of SB 11, is specific for school-based law enforcement – Confused why this course exists when ALERT is the gold standard, TCOLE has now established ALERT as a substitute to Course 2195, should have always been that way
  • School marshals are also not taught by ALERT, there must be consistency with training across the state
  • Threat assessments need to be deposited in a database, a student disciplined for making threats is removed from campus for 3 days, but the Full Behavioral Advisory Team is not triggered
  • Police officers do not have access to the CARES system, cannot make a CCQ and determine if someone has had mental health issues, peace officers need to be given access to CARES
  • Recommends grant funding for mental health clinicians to be imbedded in police forces and with 911 operators, should be attached to ALERT system certification
• Rubin – Provides overview of leading a police department in a rural county
  • Shares anecdote of an individual struggling with mental health issues in his county, was identified as a mental health risk and ended up hurting his family
  • Mental health certification for officers from TCOLE needs to be expanded
  • Blanco PD only uses ALERT
  • Need collaboration between agencies, Blanco PD is very small, work with Texas Park Police, other state and federal agencies
  • Ultimately, police chief is responsible, but blame goes to superintendent and school district as well
  • SB 11 is not enough for small districts, his school district would get about $50K a year, not enough to hire even one SRO
• Hunter – Provides overview with mental health issues in students in schools
  • If a child is documented with mental health issues in one school and switches schools, that record does not follow the child, local PD is not aware either
  • School shootings happen because of deep societal issues, need to change the culture
  • Law enforcement needs to be included in the safety design of all schools
  • School mapping must occur, plans must take safety into consideration
• Culbreth – Offers solutions on behalf of TPCA
  • School districts need to create a plan for openings, need to submit for overview for by a state agency
  • Need to ensure collaboration with law enforcement agencies, mental health experts
  • SB 11 (86R) has done a good job but more needs to be done
  • Safety staffing and safety systems need to both be considered
  • Safety recognition program should be created so districts are recognized for their efforts
  • District law enforcement professionals need more resources, online threat assessments should be prioritized, some districts can handle in house and others do not have resources required
  • ALERT is great, but will receive a large number of requests after tragedies, need to ensure they have resources to handle requests
  • Threat assessment reporting procedure needs to be improved
• Noakes – Provides overview of policing in large city
  • Worth is 6^th largest ISD in state, contracts with 6 different ISDs to provide SROs
  • Recently performed a study to see how much it would cost to place an SRO at every campus, would cost additional $66.3M, $80.2M total
  • Social media investigations need more funding, not every community has the resources needed to handle ASAP
  • Recommends setting up regional training hubs with agencies that have the capacities to provide ALERT training, Texas State most likely cannot provide adequately for the entire state
  • Recommends grant funding for more research into these issues and possible solutions
• Dutton – Would you agree that there are far more guns on the street than 3-4 years ago?
  • Yes
• Dutton – Would you also agree that we are less safe than before we had these guns?
  • That is a locally based answer, what is safe in one community is different for another, there are communities struggling with violence
• Dutton – Do you think there is a connection between the two?
  • I do not, crime is up and there are more guns, but I cannot make a correlation, there are many more societal issues, and it is not a simple one to one relationship
  • Perdue – The TCPA supports reasonable gun control offenses, supports raising the age of automatic weapons to 21, supports reforming state penal code for straw purchases, Texas peace officers already have authority to seize firearms if they are arrested
• Dutton – Should this Legislature do anything to increase the number of guns on the street?
  • Standridge – We believe there are reasonable gun measures that do not infringe on 2^nd amendment rights
• Dutton – The Legislature has increased the number of guns on the streets in recent sessions
  • Standridge – The TCPA was very clear we supported training to carry a weapon, the Legislature acted differently, and we support their choice
• Dutton – Harris County has over 87 policing organizations, do you have any thoughts on this?
  • Requirements to start a police organization in Texas is very minimal, large creation of agencies with ISDs, we believe there should be some enhancements to the requirements to start a police agency
  • Culbreth – From Harris County, have the ability to link radios, have good relationships with law enforcement partners but that is up to leadership of those agencies
• Dutton – We don’t have fire departments like we have police departments, maybe we ought to look at providing a better response to crime by having a homogenous law enforcement agency, why have a school police department? Housing police? Park police?
  • Perdue – Emphasizes what happened in Uvalde was a commitment issue, not an equipment issue
• Dutton – If there was one policing agency there, would there have been a better response?
  • Culbreth – Local control is key, local departments know their jurisdictions the best, ISD police departments need to be highly specialized for schools, if you have a general force you will have general services
  • Perdue – Do not use a one size fits all approach for this
• Rose – I’m curious to your position on gun free zones, and allowing guns into schools for educators?
  • Standridge – Our position is that this is a local issue, local politics should dictate whether they allow teachers to be armed, however, they must be properly trained, at least 40 hours of training, also need to have a method to identify armed staff
  • Culbreth – Agrees it is a local issue, but understands most teachers do not want to be armed, need proper training
• Rose – Would an 18-year-old student be allowed to bring a gun to school?
  • No, would not qualify for an exception under Texas penal code
  • Standridge – Strong supporter of the school marshal program, in rural areas it is highly successful
• Rose – So if we got rid of gun free zones, could an 18-year-old bring a gun to school?
  • Yes, but hope there would still be an exception for students at school
• Darby – Chaired a select committee on mass violence, charges were the exact same, shows him that policy has not changed throughout time
• Darby – Do you have a background in school safety? Do you have experience with iWatch Texas?
  • Culbreth – Need to improve mental health database across police departments so every agency has access to the same thing; need to create legislation so there is consistency across the police departments, TEA, fusion centers, etc., regarding coordination
  • Standridge – Raises issue of school districts reluctant to share information with police departments
  • Noakes – Regarding fusion centers, has been one of the greatest assets they have, able to partner with local, county, state, and federal agencies, especially regarding online threats at schools
• Geren – Would being able to see school maps from all schools in your jurisdiction help?
  • Noakes – Talked to Ft. Worth ISD Director of Safety, will have access to camera footage in school which will be a tremendous help, being able to see mapping and footage would be ideal
  • Hunter – Kilgore PD was the first PD in state to receive mapping, but needs to be standardized across the state, Legislature should look into this
• King – Every officer knows the protocol to a mass shooting, have there been mass shootings that have been averted due to following protocol?
  • Actions specific to ALERT level training is one that has not occurred to his knowledge
• King – Is that a realistic protocol then?
  • Yes, I believe it is reasonable to expect that
• King and Hefner ask Perdue about training
  • Perdue – Ask the legislature to mandate every peace office go through level one operator training; is an investment
  • Perdue – In addition to the 80 hours of training
• Goodwin – Threat assessment can lead to what? What if parents do not agree?
  • Culbreth – If record is lost, many prevent wrap around supports; can do a better job to prevent via legislation
  • Culbreth – Students can be committed to local facilities by officers
• Goodwin – Raising age for buying assault rifles, make distinction? Is a clear way to define in law?
  • Standridge – Yes and would be glad to assist with language; “military style” rifle
• Johnson – Concerned raising children in culture of active shooter drills; worried about the term “hardening” and need to craft policies not traumatizing to children
  • Todd Hunter, Kilgore PD – Not all schools are following those guidelines; is up to the legislature to check if they are
  • Standridge – Have to balance; concerned about drills teaching them to be afraid
• Johnson – Need to take into consideration to not oversimply crime being done by those with mental illness?
  • Perdue – Mental health issue is growing faster than resources and need multi-disciplinary teams; agree to your point
• Johnson and Perdue discuss what to look out for including truancy as well
• Johnson – Group would support program to allow mental health coverage for those who are uninsured?
  • Rubin – Yes
• Johnson – If a local PD first on scene, do they maintain command? Expect when experts arrive they would provide support?
  • Rubin – Command is maintained until relinquished
  • Standridge – Fire departments are ahead of us with verbalizing clear delineation of command; first who is there is in command
  • Perdue – Would expect unified command to make decisions collaboratively
• Johnson – School marshals need a license to carry?
  • Perdue – Do not have to do certifications to LTC because of the 87(R); is a part of marshal training curriculum still
  • Perdue – Have in law marshals need a background check and psychological examination with a renewal
• Johnson – Seizing a firearm related to extreme risk protective order or tweeted threats on social media?
  • Perdue – Only way to seize a firearm is with an emergency order
• Neave – What can Texas do in respect to closing loopholes and getting universal background checks
  • Standridge – Should strengthen ability to do background checks regarding mental issues or criminal episodes
  • Standridge – Legislature should Texas is not a full access site in the NICS system; may would even nee
• Neave – Should work to prevent straw purchases
  • Standridge – Straw purchases are not against the law and should be
  • Perdue – Need to know in the field when we are dealing with a mental health individual; state does not get the CCQ information
• Neave – Assault rifles include AR15s?
  • Standridge – Correct
• Bowers – What about the police shortage; asks about training
  • Standridge – Are having hard time to find qualified people who want to join the police
  • Standridge – Advocate for more training, but more funding and access
  • Rubin – Need to bring training in house
• Bowers and the panel discuss standardized unified command
  • Perdue – Cannot just pass legislation that is just more active shooter legislation
• White – Are talking about training with all those who would respond
• Patterson – What if the incident commander is not accessible to other officers?
  • Standridge – Single person in charge regardless of if they are in contact or not
• Patterson – Overstepping for a city police department to maintain incident commander after the location moves to a school?
  • Patterson and Perdue discuss best practices for an incident commander
  • Standridge – Try to honor local jurisdiction and local control
  • Rubin – Need to have practical training beforehand
• Patterson – See any common theme between recent shooters?
  • Perdue – Data is up to 2019; pistol is most prominent, and attacker is normally alone
  • Perdue – Attacker profile does not know a specific race; 55% is stranger violence, businesses are the number one venue for these attacks
  • Perdue – Median victims shot is 4 and killed is 2
• Patterson – Know info on the personal lives of shooters? See fatherlessness as a huge issue
• Patterson – Lawful for underage shooters to have pistols? Are typically less than 21?
  • 21
• Patterson – Children should have access to social media?
  • Standridge – Are not going to solve larger issues in society with legislation
  • White – Have a social media charge, let’s leave certain discussions for later
• Patterson – Definitions on “assault rifle,” “military style,” or “long rifle”?
  • Perdue – Should be careful about those definitions; will help with crafting of language
• Patterson – Want to make sure we are talking about the performance of the weapon not how it looks
• Dutton – As Chair of the House Public Education Committee concerned about arming teachers
  • Standridge – If the decision was made by a local school district, advocate for training and identification
  • Standridge advocates for school marshal program and additional training hours
  • Standridge differences between marshals and teachers
• Dutton – Raises concerns with law enforcement techniques with disarming an active shooter, and the possibility that marshals and armed teachers could escalate the situation
• Harless – Concerned with chain of command, until it is relinquished, the first one on scene has incident command, correct?
  • Standridge – Yes
  • Ruben – As a small police department, we want to own that situation, we want to protect our kids
• Allison – Why is this still an issue? Is there something the Legislature is missing?
  • Standridge – Wish I had a definitive answer, larger societal issues have added to this, notoriety people seek through social media adds to this, video games, lessening the sanctity of human life, believes there are things to implement that could lower the likelihood of this happening again
• Leach – You said in most mass shootings, the shooter has no relationship to victims?
  • 55% of the time
• Leach – Is it safe to say that individual that wants to commit mass violence is not going to go into a location where there is active law enforcement?
  • The likelihood is much less, they will pick a less protected target
• Leach – In the scenario where one school has marshals and another does not, which school is the shooter going to choose to go to?
  • I believe anyone who is going to cause mass damage will go to the “softer” target, or one with less security
• Leach – What is the deterrent effect (having a sign stating staff is armed) for mass shooters?
  • Would probably have an effect, again emphasizes it is a local issue
• Bonnen – School safety committee is required for districts, must have law enforcement presence on committee, what has your experience been with these committees and district?
  • Culbreth – Committees brought together district and PD staff, our district already had this before the mandate but more collaboration after the mandate
• Bonnen – If an incident were to occur today in Spring ISD, would you have been prepared for the response?
  • Culbreth – Yes
• Hefner – Could you expand on the differences between Marshall and guardian programs?
  • Perdue – Guardian can be teacher, coach, etc., but are not a licensed peace officer under law, no required training, usually someone with firearm experience
• Hefner – Do they both carry a firearm on their person?
  • Perdue – Depends on what the school board allows
• Cook – Would you feel comfortable letting an ISD chief command your SWAT team?
  • Noakes – These situations are very fluid, don’t want to say an ISD police chief is less qualified than a large police force, depends on many different situations
• Cook – What happens when an ISD police chief will not relinquish control?
  • Noakes – If there is an active threat going on, my expectation would be for some action to be taken
• Cook – You are not asking for any change on chain of command?
  • Noakes – No
• Landgraf – Last session we established an active shooter response system, how familiar are you with that and its implementation?
  • Culbreth – We have practices in place, but your legislation identifies best practices into statute, maybe look at the funding

 

Brian Hawthorne, President Sheriff’s Association of Texas & Sheriff of Chambers County

• Officers that initially engaged should have continued engaging and pursued, should have kept him outside, loss of life would have been reduced
• Police officers are trained to respect jurisdiction and chain of command, officers there looked to Chief of Uvalde ISD police department,
• Nothing more important than hardening schools,
• Many sheriffs already operate as SROs, contracting SROs with the local Sheriff’s Dept works because they have the resources already, can minimize costs
• Many sheriffs have not seen school EOPs, need to ensure EOP is signed off by law enforcement
• LEOS Fund is great, focus that money on preventing shootings
• Warns not to pass legislation determining who is incident commander, needs to be a local decision
• Multi-agency responses are always unorganized, and better networking and communication needs to occur between different agencies

 

Buddy Mills, Gillespie County Sheriff

• Agrees with everything Hawthorne said, happy to answer any questions
• White – One recommendation that can be addressed immediately: ISD emergency plan needs sign off from a law enforcement agency of jurisdiction
  • Hawthorne – Correct
• Bonnen – You said only one of your districts had talked to SROs about the EOP?
  • Hawthorne – Yes
• Bonnen – It is in the law that local PD has to be on the school safety committee, I’m confused on how you can be on the committee but not sign off on the plan
  • Hawthorne – Breakdown of communication, probably common across the state
• Frank – Sheriffs are responsible for law enforcement in unincorporated areas?
  • Hawthorne – It depends, in my county there are 4 cities without police departments
• Frank – And police departments are responsible for their municipality?
  • Hawthorne – Yes
• Frank – How does it work for school districts? Are they accountable to the superintendent and the board? It seems extremely confusing
  • Hawthorne – Yes, normally ISD police department will handle charges only on school grounds, will defer larger issues to another force
• Johnson – Brings up red flag laws, says they could have stopped Uvalde shooting
  • Hawthorne – We see some problems in the law, we know the Second Amendment may need some limitations
• Johnson – If it fair to say we can all protect the second amendment and realize there are limitations, we need to implement?
  • Hawthorne – I would say yes
• Hefner – I have heard examples of some ISDs not being welcoming to outside law enforcement, have you dealt with anything like this?
  • Hawthorne – Not personally
• Hefner – What about having an outside agency come audit EOPs?
  • I assumed TEA did audit EOPs
• Neave – What second amendment limitations are you on the record for?
  • Hawthorne – Had 11 amendments for open carry, mostly involving at risk people and guns, got 6 passed
• Neave – Has the Sheriff’s organization taken a position on red flag laws or universal background checks?
  • Hawthorne – Extreme risk protective orders are a no brainer

 

1. Nim Kidd, Chief, Texas Division of Emergency Management

• As a firefighter, has taken command of a certain “sector” of the emergency
• Provides an overview of intersection between state and federal emergency responses, including National Incident Management System (NIMS) and National Incident Command Systems
• In Uvalde, TDEM managed donation and call center, lodging for families, community response center, disaster behavior health coordination
• Must include local fire and EMS agencies in planning
• There are no more single jurisdiction or single discipline responses, have to ensure planning is not the end, must follow up plan with training, exercise, communication
• Recommends having each superintendent convene a meeting to list disciplines and agencies that need to be in contact with district
• Need to discuss what exactly will happen in an event of emergency
• Open school safety commissions to federal law enforcement, state law enforcement, firefighters and EMS, and hospitals
• King – Concerned with radio systems used in Uvalde, can you speak on operability and costs for radios around the state?
  • The average radio is $8,000 per handheld radio, two factors we must consider, technical capability of radio, and mindset of responders
  • Believes radio systems are tied back to the City of Austin with a GATOR system, not sure on this
• Gonzalez – What would your recommendation be for policymakers based on lack of communication between first responders?
  • Police chiefs and sheriffs across the state refuse TDEM officials access to radios during emergencies, has happened hundreds of times
• Gonzalez – Does this put lives in danger?
  • Yes
• Gonzalez – How?
  • Without being able to communicate on radio systems and establish formal command, it makes it difficult to communicate and help at all
• Dutton – Is there anything we can do as policymakers to help you overcome the problems of communication between agencies?
  • Seems there needs to be a complete refresh on radio systems in Texas, task someone to get this job done
• King – I have heard there are cell phone apps that can function as radios?
  • There are, we have used them sometimes, but would not replace with real radios
• Darby – One of the problems in Midland was lack of communication, a recommendation from that tragedy was a consistent radio system for Texas, has that happened?
  • No, many different radios, different brands, there are many communities where agencies will not talk to each other or on the same channel
• Darby – There is now a statewide system that alerts people on their cell phones about emergency events, correct?
  • Yes, managed by DPS, but technology is still not there, places in rural areas do not have adequate coverage
• Kuempel – Is there a way to override everyone’s cyber-barriers so they can receive emergency notifications?
  • Happy to send radio experts to your office
• Patterson – Why do people turn off these alerts? Is it due to the constant issues and emergencies that occur?
  • Yes, definitely a possibility, people are burnt out and tend to tune these things out

 

Mike Morath, Commissioner, TEA

• Provides overview on policies regarding to school safety, TEA’s specific role in school safety, and operational areas TEA is focused on
• Provides overview of SB 11 (86R) and status of implementation
• TEA has dedicated 6 full-time staff relating to SB 11, works towards school safety and mental health
• Hiring a Chief of School Safety, reporting to Commissioner directly
• TEA has oversight over SB 11, can grant a conservatorship for a district that is noncompliant
• Incident response is based on preparation, we need to expand preparedness exercises, TEA will look into rulemaking to better reflect best practices
  • TEA is supporting school district audit framework, requiring every district to have safety committee meet and review EOP
• Access control – TEA has rulemaking authority over facilities, crafting new rules that would apply to every building, hoping to propose rule in July about minimum security standards
  • Will ask districts to do a review of all campus doors
• Improving threat assessment practices – Secret Service has well documented criteria for what “at risk” means, need to improve coordination and communication
• Dutton – Regarding the behavioral threat assessment, what can this committee to do improve?
  • Policy framework is excellent, School Safety Center has great staff, best thing to do is improve coaching and support for school staff
• Dutton – That seems like what we need to arm teachers with, skills to do the behavioral threat assessment, will give us the ability to respond before the tragedy happens
  • We give our teachers too much responsibility
• Dutton – Do teachers have access to the threat assessment?
  • The “if you see something, say something” ethos needs to be communicated to students and staff, but the threat assessment team is who you say something too, this is a small group of individuals who determine if they are a threat
• Dutton – Is this working?
  • I believe it is, difficult to execute with fidelity everywhere, clearly something we need to improve
• Patterson – Teachers are overburdened, what is the role of a school counselor?
  • Pretty large role, academic or career advisor, also somewhat phycologist style counselor role, and lastly anything else that comes up
• Patterson – It seems like less and less of their time is spent on engaging on mental state of students, do they have to help with testing also?
  • Testing is usually at the end of the year, they might have to help then
• Patterson – Do you feel like we have enough counselors in our school systems?
  • For all mental health staff, social workers/counselors, we do not currently, below the recommendation from American Counseling Association
• Frank – Encourages Morath for when TEA starts drafting rules, to look at rules that are not necessary any longer
• Gonzalez – Passed legislation last year mandating 80% of counselor time should be spent on counseling duties
• Gonzalez – When making rules for all K-12 facilities, will there be any exceptions?
  • Not looking into any at the moment
• Lozano – You are planning on having 340K doors checked?
  • Yes
• Lozano – I am worried about the impacts COVID has had on mental health and our kids, why don’t we identify at risk students’ mental health wise before school starts this year?
  • There are restrictions under statute, but I will check with my team on this issue
• Bonnen – TEA is largely in charge of enforcement, encourages TEA to perform unannounced checks on districts, would this be effective?
  • Probably would be a wise improvement in policy framework, largely no enforcement currently in framework
  • Prather –
  • Morath – Has attempted to make the review process as operation-able and actable as possible, needs to be an actual value add in the process
• Bonnen – Assessment process needs to be consistent
• King – After the Santa Fe shooting, did the Legislature give you money to start implementing some of these items?
  • There was a distribution of funds, school safety allotment, one time $100M safety allocation, more money went to TCHAT and higher education
• King – Has all money been distributed?
  • There is $18M not distributed from the $100M
• King – Has there been discussions about securing entryways?
  • Yes, improving access control has been seen in construction work across the state, many districts used the $100M distribution on this
• King – What can we do down the road to ensure people actually use the locks?
  • We are looking at practice recommendations we can implement in rule requirements, Districts will be in charge of implementing and enforcing this

 

Kathy Martinez-Prather, Director, TSSC

• Provides overview of Texas School Safety Center, which is the central policy house for school safety, training, and prevention; Established after Columbine Shooting
• Since 2007, districts have been required to conduct audits on their EOPs, required to have an EOP since 2005
• Abbott has charged every school safety committee to come together this summer
• Also required school behavior assessment teams to meet this summer to ensure staff are trained, TSSC providing the training
• Will require every school district to complete by September 1, superintendent and board president must certify
• Research shows these events are planned in advance and can usually be prevented
• Behavioral threat assessment is a proactive approach that can prevent this from happening
• Behavioral threat assessment teams do not need to repeat their trainings, this should be changed
• Lozano – You have trained 28,000 people since the implementation of SB 11?
  • Yes
• Lozano – How long has threat assessment training been around?
  • Was not effective until September 1, 2019
• Lozano – Does that include folks from Uvalde?
  • Yes
• Lozano – So this training failed?
  • Well, I would say training needs to be repetitive and annual
• Lozano – Have we consulted with any other countries? Maybe Israel?
  • Our training is based off the model by the Secret Service and the Department of Education, we have a basic and advanced training
• Lozano – Was there a threat assessment team in Uvalde? Were they aware of the Facebook post?
  • Yes, there was, and I am not aware
• Dutton – Do you get a report from school districts over real threats?
  • No
• Dutton – So you don’t know if your training is actually effective?
  • TEA collects threat assessment data, we measure success by how threats are handled or the disposition of these cases
• Dutton – What do you do with the TEA data?
  • Morath – TEA and TSSC work together and have a very strong bond, we look at the data continuously throughout the year, also combine with other data like discipline data
• Dutton – But there is no way to actually determine if your training is effective?
  • Prather – It is hard to prove a negative in this situation, we have prevented multiple acts of violence in the past, annual training is required to keep these concepts embedded, at the end of the day we are depending on schools to act on their training
• Dutton – How much time do you spend on training?
  • Prather – There is a basic seven-hour training, and an advanced seven-hour training, but state law does not require it to be repeated, the training is only provided to threat assessment teams, not all teachers
• Dutton – So not all teachers get the training? What accountability is there?
  • Prather – The threat assessment teams are supposed to inform the rest of school staff, but we do not know if they actually do
  • Morath – The concern is on broadly communicating the training, there is no oversight system, the buck stops at the local school board
• Hull – I struggle to understand why parents are not notified during or before the threat assessment takes place, can you speak on this?
  • Morath – There is parental notification throughout this process, it is required by law, defined in statute as “immediately”
• Allison – ISDs in my district are not fully staffing their security committees, any thoughts on how we can fix this?
  • Prather – We need to establish those memorandums of understanding beforehand, so districts know what is expected, better communication between agencies will also help
• Allison – There are continued concerns with continuity with threat assessment teams, how can we fix this?
  • Prather – That is a concern, there is a lot of turnover right now in schools, need to ensure continuity and make sure everyone is trained
• Harless – Who is responsible for the districts doing the inspections?
  • Prather – The school districts are charged with doing the safety and security audits once every 3 years
• Harless – Do we know how many schools fail?
  • Prather – SB 11 required districts to turn those plans to the Safety Center, working actively with districts to improve plans and get them in place
• Harless – Did Robb Elem have a plan in place?
  • Prather – Uvalde ISD had an active threat plan in place
• Harless – Did we do an inspection of Robb Elem’s plan?
  • Prather – We do not have the authority to do an onsite inspection, very rarely a district will ask us to come out to the campus, some districts hire third party inspectors
• Bowers – How are substitute teachers prepared for these threats?
  • Morath – Ultimately the school system’s responsibility to provide the training for substitutes
• Bonnen – This issue was addressed in 2018 after Santa Fe, requirement for substitute teachers to be aware of safety plans
  • Morath – This is enforced by the district and there is no accountability system in place through the state
• Bower – We heard from law enforcement today about districts not sharing mental health data with them, is this HIPPA preventing this?
  • Morath – FERPA is what we pay attention to in education, student enrollment record privacy concerns, ability to share relevant information to a threat should be allowed, but will opine with General Counsel
• White – Law enforcement also testified about how mental health records do not transfer over
  • Morath – There is an enrollment record state law that requires that it follows the kid, they should not have to ask for it, sending district just has to send the information
• Harless – Seems like we need a database for this information, but privacy concerns arise with any database with this much information
  • Morath – Any educational record is protected under FERPA, including the behavioral analysis or threat assessment report, can transfer between districts
• Harless – Should law enforcement have access to this?
  • Morath – This is a policy consideration that needs to be taken by the Legislature
• Harless – If it is an ISD police department, they would have access, correct?
  • Morath – I believe so, but when there is no ISD police department they would need to request data
• Harless – Do parents have access to those reports?
  • Morath – Parents have access to everything, they have the ability, usually parent has to request
• White – Emphasizes the need to also considering securing school transportation staff and infrastructure

 

John Curnutt, Assistant Director, ALERRT Center

• ALERRT exists to provide the best active shooter training in the country and develop law enforcement best practices
• Provide multiple training modules at no cost to law enforcement
• Receive line-item funding from state and grant funding from federal government

 

Matt Fuller, Director, Center for Assessment, Research, and Educational Safety (CARES) at SHSU and Montgomery ISD

• Founded CARES after Sandy Hook shooting, provide high level research on school safety
• After Santa Fe, conduced statewide needs assessment with Governor
• 90% of teachers stated they could identify warning signs in student, 70% say they have received training over how to
• Research shows that better discipline practices are needed
• Found that counselors were only spending 13.5 hour on average counseling students a week
• Police chiefs were least supportive of seeing educators armed, only 40% supported
• Majority of everyone surveyed agreed that every campus needs an armed presence
• Recommends placing priorities on funding, school safety allotment should be reexamined
• Johnson – You said teachers felt most prepared now to identify threats, but mass shootings are the highest ever, by responding to these incidents, do you think we are raising mass shooters?
  • Some of the more extreme sorts of school shooting training are doing harm, like live round trainings, but will not go that far to say they are creating shooters
• Lozano – You said these threat assessment teams have thwarted attacks?
  • In my experience, I know of two shootings that were averted
• Goodwin – Your report states there is a growing rift between teachers and administrators, can you elaborate?
  • Pressures on teachers and administrators are very different, this is causing tension, need to work on administrators working to “lower their numbers”
• Gonzalez – Are there any policies we could be advancing that don’t put us in a reactive place, but a proactive place?
  • Focus on the behavioral threat assessment, there needs to be a cultural change where we are not afraid to report people for troublesome tendencies
• Johnson – Would you say extreme risk protective orders are in our best interests?
  • Curnutt and Fuller – I agree, there are dangerous behaviors that warrant concern with firearms
• Johnson – Would we save lives?
  • Curnutt and Fuller – Yes
• Goodwin – Can you speak more on the list of behaviors you have identified for mass shooters?
  • Fuller – I do not personally lead training, but we have developed this over surveys, records, and interviews, provides a general framework of suggestions

 

Kevin Brown, Executive Director, TASA

• Education community is having to play “catch up” on safety and security issues, was not an issue until 1999
• Aging schools are a problem, rural schools often do not have officers
• Texas is 40^th in the nation with school funding, teacher shortage, counseling and social work shortage, difficult decisions between safety and staffing
• Asking for increase in funding for school safety allotment, citing the difficulties it takes to pass a bond and the small amount small districts get from allotment
• Providing a best practice manual for school staff is beneficial
• Agrees with previous testimony about need for school records to be shared across districts if a student moves
• Parents can sometimes be a hindrance in school crises, training for parents could be a good thing

 

Dr. Jeremy Thompson, Ponder ISD, TASA

• Speaking on the perspective from small and rural school districts, it is a different story, not a one size fits all solution
• Most important access is building security, doors in older buildings are not secure
• Implemented a standardized protocol after Sandy Hook, best practices need to be practiced and drilled into people’s brains
• Incident command is crucial for rural communities, many parties will show up at emergency, including parents who “will be armed”, need to control outside folks
• Crisis resources need to be available, and the training required to use them, useless without good training
• Two-way radio systems are helpful in times of crises, but very expensive
• Supports behavioral assessment teams, but emphasizes a hesitancy on teacher’s parts due to fear of “mislabeling” someone, angering parents, or other reasons
• Defensive strategies for intruders are crucial, but exhausting for teachers
• Schaefer – Do we need to give districts more authority to expel a student?
  • Difficult response, because if a kid is expelled, there is zero support, I don’t think the answer is to toss them out of school, but we need tools and resources to create a place to move those kids to
• Schaefer – But you are acknowledging that there is a small number of kids, that are such a disciplinary problem, they are hurting the education of other kids?
  • Yes, most times the parents are not supportive of their kids or receptive of the school’s feedback, problems with finding certified teachers to staff DAEP and in school suspension programs
• Gonzalez – When a student gets reported to the threat assessment team, does that stay in their file? Why are teachers hesitant to report?
  • Not 100% certain; Not really a problem of hesitancy, but teachers are not able to actually diagnose the student with anything, incomplete picture
• Gonzalez – Are there any policy changes you would recommend for this?
  • My district gets about $15K under the school safety allotment, does not go far, safety and security costs for district is about $100k, to cover everything the allotment would need to be around $100-150 per student
• Gonzalez – Would love to hear any recommendations you have for school funding formulas
  • Smaller districts are naturally just at a disadvantage financially, very helpful to have as much local discretion as possible, funds and no mandates on how to spend them
• Gonzalez – Do you feel the small and midsize district allotment is not enough?
  • Appreciate tremendously, but could always appreciate more
• Dutton – If creating a DAEP program for rural schools is challenging, please bring concerns to the Public Education Committee

 

Jeff Clemmons, Director of Facility Services, TASB

• School facilities across Texas range from 100-year-old buildings, to portables, to state-of-the-art facilities being built now
• Need flexibility – There will be an urge to apply a blanket set of policies for all districts, this is probably not wise, wide range of buildings across the state
• Need recognition of the problems for smaller districts
• With record cost and supply chain issues, small districts barely have enough to maintain their facilities, nonetheless improve them safety wise
• Districts need access to a statewide grant program dedicated to improving school facilities
• Schools without no security on campus need to bring in their law enforcement to become aware of their buildings, schools could provide individual training for law enforcement
• Lozano – It seems securing entry points one basic thing schools can do, do you support reducing the number of entry points on campuses?
  • Clemmons – Should be a local control issue, it depends on the school if it would make schools safer, many schools are not able to afford these changes
  • Thompson – Depends on the school also, impossible to have one entrance for high schools, possible for elementary schools, safety audits are very helpful, need to build a culture around school safety
• Leach – You said there are approximately 9,000 campuses across the state?
  • Correct
• Leach – Are there safety audits performed on every existing school? Are those results public? Do you think parents should be provided with those results?
  • The School Safety Center does over district plans, have a big concern with releasing public information about school weaknesses to the public, could be creating a threat for bad actors
• Leach – The reason we do the audits is, so the problems are fixed, correct? Shouldn’t parents have a right to know?
  • We do them to inform the school board of changes needed on campuses, but probably every superintendent would have a problem with releasing that data
• Leach – With respect to new construction, would you support a statewide mandate requiring school safety requirements?
  • Yes
• Patterson – Does not seem like a money issue with some districts, but a priority issue
  • Hard to compare districts, some might not have the resources to do what they want
• Patterson – What is one thing every district in Texas should do?
  • Clemmons – Hesitant to say there is one thing, depends on the district, need to trust local leaders to do what is best for their schools
  • Thompson – Emphasizes the rising costs of equipment and construction
• Schaefer – Believes every campus should have one staff member that is armed, do you agree?
  • Thompson – Communities must make that decision
• Schaefer – What more evidence do we need?
  • Thompson – There is a limited amount of funding, and districts must decide what they want to do with that funding, there have been many shootings at schools with armed staff, not saying it’s a wrong decision but should be up to the community, guardianship program worked well in his district
• Schaefer – Do not see the financial constraints of getting one staff member armed per campus
• Geren – The guardianship program has to be approved by the school board, correct?
  • Thompson – Yes
• Geren – So would it even be possible to set up a guardianship program in 7 weeks?
  • Thompson – In my experience, no, there needs to be great caution when it comes to this program
• Dutton – How many students do you have? You have one high school?
  • Thompson – Yes
• Dutton – There were armed people on campus in Uvalde, have you found training and communication not reaching teachers?
  • Thompson – We have trainings for all our teachers, have not personally experienced
• Dutton – Do you think the threat assessment training is sufficient?
  • Thompson – Yes, we also provide supplementary training to all staff, not everyone on the campus needs the threat assessment training
• Dutton – What is your fund balance?
  • $10-11M right now, about 3-4 months operating expenses
• Schaefer – Encourages Committee and witnesses to look into non-lethal handheld weapons for arming school staff with
• Harless – Do you think the 3-year requirement for building inspections should be more frequent?
  • Clemmons – The 3-year inspection is only for emergency operation infrastructure

 

Carrie Griffith, Texas State Teachers Association

• Advocating for a comprehensive multipronged approach:
• Providing safe and secure learning environment
  • Hardening tactics are necessary, but should not dominate the response
  • Critical to not induce trauma in active shooter drills, simulated emergencies are not prohibited and should be
  • Oppose arming teachers, more guns in schools create an unsafe environment
• Increasing access to mental health services
  • Need more funding for mental health services in schools
  • Texas has one school counselor for every 400 students, twice the recommended ratio
• Taking meaningful action on gun violence prevention
  • Guns should not end up in the hands of people that do not need them
• Schaefer – You mentioned that arming teachers was unsafe for students, do you have evidence?
  • There is specific evidence, can provide
• Schaefer and witness engage in argument over arming teachers in schools
• Dutton – You said that simulated emergency drills are not best practice?
  • Yes, they are trauma inducing, young children cannot tell the difference between real and simulated drills, simulated drills have real sound effects
• Dutton – But the very nature of a drill is to be as realistic as possible?
  • We support drills, but not trauma inducing practices, you do not set a building on fire for a fire drill
• Johnson – Shares multiple news stories of firearms being misused in schools by staff, in response to Rep. Schaefer’s line of questioning claiming it has never occurred
• Leach – Based on your testimony, you would not want your children to participate in these drills?
  • I would not, when helping Sen. Blanco draft school safety drill legislation last year, we tried to include a section on parent opt-outs
• Leach – Would you opt-out your children?
  • I do not think schools should perform drill that are dangerous to children, drills need to be analyzed by mental health and psychological experts
• Leach – Engages in argument with witness, asks for empirical evidence for claims made today
• Johnson – Shares news article claiming active shooter drills increase anxiety to students, in response to Rep. Leach’s line of questioning

 

Monty Exter, Senior Lobbyist, ATPE

• Educator responsibilities are being extended to far more than what they can handle
• Teachers got into teaching to teach; they are generally not seeking to take on the role of law enforcement
• The amount of training for teachers is effective to do the job they were hired to do, analysis shows Uvalde staff did everything they were supposed to do, more training would not have reduced loss of life
• Simulated active shooter training has a mental and physical cost on students
• You can’t both have an opt-out provision and also a real simulated active shooter training
• Teachers want schools to be safe, but do not want to be compelled to carry a firearm; should be up to local control, already in statute and the programs do not need to be expanded
• Hardening schools is vital, vestibules are effective
• Teachers are not trained to be mental health professionals either, should not be diagnosing and recommending treatment for students
• Dutton – Regarding the threat assessments, is that going well in schools?
  • Don’t have a lot of data or experience with that program, threat assessment teams are an answer to a very pertinent problem
• Dutton – Should we have a school hotline that students and teachers can call?
  • Not qualified to answer, but people usually like when a live person is on the other end, on a statewide basis there is a lot of complexity but should look into it
• Gonzalez – Do we have a teacher shortage problem?
  • There are enough certified teachers in this state, but a shortage of educators in public schools
• Gonzalez – So we have enough staff, but our public schools cannot retain them?
  • Correct
• Gonzalez – So would you say the policies we enact in this space will have an impact on the teacher workforce?
  • Absolutely, we need to make sure we are not over emphasizing training, there are many teachers that are retiring early due to the burdensome training amounts required
• Patterson – Have you heard any Member say they want to compel teachers to carry firearms?
  • I am not saying that, but that is the position of the ATPE
• Patterson – Is anyone trying to force teachers in diagnosing mental health issues?
  • There has been more responsibility placed on educators further into that realm, teachers are slowly being given more responsibility
• Patterson – You said if teachers see an issue, they don’t know who to tell that to?
  • Correct, or they maybe have told someone, but they don’t see the end result, which is a disincentive to report again
• Bowers – Do you have any recommendations for school-based prevention efforts that could reach the entire student body, to build mental health resiliency? How can we build a wellness foundation on our campuses?
  • Yes, there are programs out there, these programs are not to identify people “on the verge”, but to prevent them from being on the verge in the first place, definitely something we should look into
• Bowers – Are you aware of the YAM program? Already utilized in North Texas
  • Not an expert, but was developed and created in Texas and endorsed as a world class program
• Johnson – You mentioned law enforcement mentorship programs, what has your experience been with law enforcement in that role?
  • Those programs have benefited my own kids, hugely beneficial, anytime you can see law enforcement as a valued part of the community, only will be beneficial

 

Britney Saur, YES Prep Public Schools, Director, Safety and Security

• Shares experience at YES Prep school in Houston from last year, man attacked school with a gun and injured the principal, considered a “success” but still traumatized community
• Mandate safety and security training for all district employees, to be conducted during paid training times
• Recommend the I Love You Guys training protocol and reunification protocol as best practice
• Asking for more safety and security funding, each campus should have staff member that owns the safety plan

 

Cullen Grissom, Deputy Chief, TCOLE

• TCOLE maintains peace officer license and school marshal license
• Peace officer licensing, or police academy, has a small section on active shooter situations, training is limited
• ALERRT is the primary entity that does active shooter training, no mandate on law enforcement to receive this training, only required for school-based law enforcement
• School marshals must complete an 80-hour licensing course, relating to school shootings, best practices, handgun proficiency, receive essentially the same training as peace officers gun wise
• White – Is there anything that TCOLE needs to do over the next month, to assist our local schools to start the school year?
  • Increased the number of marshal courses this summer, have seen more interest in school marshal programs, slight increase in inquiries of what it takes to start an ISD police department
• Dutton – Do you think the trainings prepared staff for the shootings that happened?
  • We are doing a full review of our trainings, would not object to requiring ALERRT training to all peace officers, but this would require an ALERRT instructor at every police academy, ALERRT training is very equipment intensive as well
• Dutton – Does TCOLE get involved with threat assessment teams?
  • TCOLE does not, average Texas peace officer does not get a lot of threat assessment training with their academy training
• Dutton – Could you provide any assistance or help for these officers?
  • We do not have specific personnel on staff, would be happy to train personnel to do so
• Dutton – What is the minimum hours of training for a police officer?
  • 720 hours
• Lozano – TCOLE can revoke licenses of a peace officer, correct?
  • Under some circumstances
• Lozano – Does a complaint have to be made? Or can TCOLE proactively investigate?
  • Very narrow circumstances include conviction of a felony, poor job performance criminal in nature, there is a very narrow range
• Lozano – Lying to the commission is a qualification?
  • Yes

 

Jason Hester, Chief, DPS

• White – Can you provide some context on extreme risk protective orders, compared to what we have?
  • License to carry program is still intact, Texas state statutes are technically more strict than federal gun regulations, but state statutes deal with licensing while buying a gun is handled by the federal government
  • Protective orders are federal and state disqualifiers, if the state receives notice of an active protective order, we will take action regarding licensing
• White – What is the time frame with these protective orders?
  • There is a 72-hour requirement to put the order in the NICS database
• White – Does Texas right now, report juvenile criminal records to the FBI for NICS?
  • We do report all dispositions and arrests to the FBI, not sure what the FBI chooses to do with that information regarding NICS
• Dutton – Have you looked at the Supreme Court decision from today?
  • I have not
• Dutton – It seems to strike down any sort of restrictions regarding the right to carry a firearm, it seems even our concealed carry program would be struck down?
  • I am not sure about those specific provisions, purchasing a handgun is a federal issue, Texas DPS runs the license to carry program
• Johnson – Were you on scene on Uvalde?
  • No
• Johnson – When agencies arrive on a scene, what are they supposed to do regarding who is the incident commander?
  • Typically, if multiple agencies that show up will offer assistance, but incident command is usually the primary agency of jurisdiction
• Patterson – If an incident commander is not performing to the training, do you believe an officer has a duty to do something about that?
  • Very difficult question, you are not always going to know the knowledge of what has happened
• Patterson – Is it DPS’ view that the agency first on scene in control?
  • Typically, that is the case, primary agency that has jurisdiction
• Patterson – Have you reviewed the condensed timelines of Uvalde?
  • I have not
• Patterson – It looks like multiple times DPS troopers said, “there are kids in there, we need to go in,” seems like no one knew who was in charge
  • I have not been fully briefed, do not want to comment
• Patterson – If there is a situation where someone shooting can shoot through a wall, how is it best to handle children in adjacent classrooms and hallways?
  • Law enforcement training is being able to understand your target, but also what is beyond your target, rapid decision needs to be made at that time
• Patterson – Is going in and eliminating the shooter always what you want to do?
  • In an active shooter situation, it is the first priority to eliminate the threat
• King – The New York Times and San Antonio Express News both published articles with leaked information from law enforcement agencies, do you know who would have leaked this?
  • I do not have an opinion on that
• Goodwin – Could someone make a threat online and then buy a gun?
  • I am not aware of any statute that would prevent someone from doing that, would have to meet a federal disqualification
• Goodwin – Is there anyway to get a protective order, given the facts of someone making a threat?
  • Are some circumstances, definition of family is important, it is possible one could have a protective order issued
• Goodwin – So a family member could report this? What is the process?
  • A family member would have to call local police department, an order would then be filed in court, a protective order would be a federal disqualifier
• Goodwin – How long would that be?
  • A lot are on a one-year basis, then it would have to be renewed
• Johnson – When we are talking about protective orders, usually we are talking about cases of domestic violence?
  • Correct
• Johnson – So if I go on Twitter and say I’m going to shoot up my school, there is no avenue for protection?
  • Yes, could not even arrest them
• Johnson – What could you do currently in the law now?
  • It would be dependent upon if anything rose to the level of arrest or emergency detainment
• Johnson – That would have to be a terroristic threat, I don’t think you could find a prosecutor that would argue that for a social media threat
• Leach – There is not anything in state law that would prevent a gun seller to sell a gun, due to a threat?
  • No, it is a federal issue
• White and Johnson engage in dialogue over what qualifies as a terroristic threat
• Patterson – Is it law enforcement take that if someone makes a threat, they have to arrest them? Or would they watch that person?
  • Don’t think an arrest is required, multitude of ways law enforcement could monitor if desired, first step is determining if it is a credible threat and moving forward
• Patterson – I think it is a slippery slope to take away people’s rights before they have committed a crime; What is your opinion on keeping the integrity of an investigation together?
  • There are standards of investigative basics, processes in place DPS follows
• Patterson – Do you think leaking information to the media is harmful to an investigation?
  • I don’t believe that would be beneficial
• Schaefer – Discusses asset forfeiture laws in Texas, claims the state has plenty of ways to already seize property and guns from dangerous individuals, argues against red flag laws
• Johnson – Disputes Rep. Shaefer’s statements, states that the El Paso and Uvalde shootings could have been prevented and were not due to the lack of red flag laws
• Schaefer – 72-hour mental health detainment is utilized in my community, not saying it is perfect but there are tools on the books already
• Frank – Was there someone in law enforcement who saw the Uvalde shooter’s posts?
  • I am not sure
• Goodwin – There were a lot of indicators that something could have gone wrong with the Uvalde shooting, we should learn from this experience

 

Zachary Zachary, Constable – Tyler County, JPCA

• Shares experiences as a single Constable in a small town
• Responsible for safety for any large event, closest back up for him may be as far as 40 miles away
• Would like to see a collaborate effort between ISD and law enforcement agencies
• Providing equipment to law enforcement agencies is key, his county constable department only has a budget of $250 a year

 

Carlos Lopez, Constable Legislative Chair, JPCA

• JPs in Uvalde did an outstanding job in terms of securing the area, they were aware of the protocols and followed those protocols
• Raises issue of open doors, number one common denominator in active shootings, more than 20 entrances ways into schools in some cases
• Recommends consistent statewide protocols by schools and SROs ensuring doors are locked, with quick exit still possible
• Recommends a controlled access monitoring system for point of entries at all campuses
• Recommends creating a program establishing a system of volunteers monitoring the outsides of schools, especially during passing periods
• Advocating for reallocation for Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education Fund, lost funding last session
• White – Provide to Committee how many Constables act as SROs and more data regarding equipment shortages Constables are facing

 

Solomon Cook, President & Chief of Humble ISD, TSDPCA

• Provides overview of expectations required of law enforcement, which were not followed in Uvalde
• Speaks on the communication systems used in Humble ISD PD
• All agencies are in constant communication and there is no confusion of jurisdiction
• Training is essential, ALERRT is required by all SROs

 

Bill Avera, 1st Vice-President & Chief of Jacksonville ISD, TSDPCA

• There is a breakdown in the family and the community
• Teachers are sometimes fearful to get involved with student with mental health issues for fear of retaliation against them
• Social media threats are difficult, social media companies are difficult to deal with
• Need to focus on school attendance rates, reduce truancy
• Does not believe mental health services are adequately funded, this is the root cause of these tragedies, community policing is about being proactive not reactive
• Supports the school marshal program but not for arming teachers against their will
• King – I agree with your comments that Texas went overboard on deinstitutionalizing mental healthcare
• King and Cook enter exchange about the qualifications of Uvalde ISD police officers compared to Humble ISD police officers
  • Cook – I take any school service day or teacher workday as an opportunity for training for my officers
  • Cook – Humble ISD utilizes an app called iHelp, reporting app for students, staff, anyone can report dangerous activity, have a protocol called “Knock and Talk” where police investigate threats by searching parents’ home and discussing issues with them
• Lozano – Every school district needs to have this; this should be implemented before school starts next year
• Dutton – What are your thoughts on what this Committee should do?
  • Cook – Funding and training, proper training needs to be available for all peace officers, not just SROs, no more unfunded mandates, monitor the accountability of laws already in place for peace officers and school staff
  • Avera – Kids exhibiting signs of problematic behavior are monitored and given support they need, they will try to find ways to subvert school supervision

 

Craig Bessent, Assistant Superintendent, Wiley ISD, Chair, Texas School Safety Board/Spokesperson

• Responsible for training people in the Stop the Bleed program, also is a school marshal
• Staffing shortage is main concern, needs to be addressed if we are going to ensure that people are safe on his campuses
• Were able to hire and place former law enforcement and military veterans for school marshal positions for schools with no staff wanting to participate in the program
• Placed a marshal on every campus, start marshals on first year teacher pay scale
• Training for marshal program is very adequate
• Bonnen – In Uvalde and Santa Fe, both shooters flew under the radar, but the signs were there. How do we do a more effective job identifying these individuals?
  • Bessent – Saw a lot more mental health issues with COVID, especially students who did not come to school in person, some have not come back to school, the problem is when students “withdraw”, because then we cannot help them with school resources
• Bonnen – If you identify someone showing serious warning signs, from a wellness perspective, if any adult is there, would they notice?
  • Bessent – Yes, the more isolated students get, the more dangerous they could become
  • Avera – We go out and meet with the parents, they are receptive, but the stigma of mental health is there; Parents will refuse to send their kids to any mental health specialist
• Dutton – What are your thoughts on what this Committee should do?
  • Bessent – Funding for school marshals or something in that box with Legislative oversight, can expand this to a lot of school districts which cannot afford it
  • Must bridge gap with mental health, need to deliver more services and improve services for troubled kids and out of school suspension services
• Lozano – This will cost money, but it will reduce the carnage of children, brings up the issue of violent video games

 

Jeffrey Yarbrough, Chief of Hutto Police Department

• Held a safety and security symposium in Bastrop with Chief of PD for Santa Fe
• One takeaway was that DPS troopers had never been to the school before and did not know there way around the campus
• Need to incorporate law enforcement in all drills so they were familiar with the schools
• Security is important, but only one factor, need to not get complacent with safety strategies for the sake of convenience
• Lock down drills are crucial, opportunities to collectively train
• Dutton – Have you found that active shooter drills to cause mental problems for students?
  • I have not
• Johnson – Appreciate your testimony, but your protocols have never been tested before, Uvalde Police would have said the same thing, also have not heard from any perspectives of mental health professionals or pediatricians
  • Need to prioritize mental health workers, do not always need to look at things through a criminal justice perspective, Humble has social workers that work in tangent with police
• Allison – Did you have to track down students who did not come back after COVID?
  • Yes, many students seemed like they just gave up, saw much more depression, anxiety, inability to cope with fear
• Allison – It seems like there were many red flags with the Uvalde shooter
  • Anonymous reporting with apps are great resources, every officer and social worker got the notifications, Gaggle provides social media monitoring and key word search monitoring on school provided devices
• Allison – Do you feel that should be a requirement for districts to follow up on dropouts?
  • Absolutely, one of the easiest things to do are the “knock and talks”, parents are usually cooperative, social workers had oversight over threat assessment teams
• Bowers – What are your four pillars?
  • Safety and security, need to secure buildings and infrastructure, but also people, be aware of self-harm
  • Coordination with mental health, integrate social workers to work tangent with law enforcement
  • Equity, focus it on needs, give every student opportunities but tailor it to them
  • Student advocacy, had relationships with every agency in jurisdiction, goal was to have students see law enforcement as advocating for them
• White – What are your policy recommendations?
  • Make sure there is accountability, there is so much complacency, convenience does not help the students in a critical incident, need to mandate certain requirements when it comes to lockdown drills and assessments of campuses

 

Lynelle Sparks, Executive Director, Texas Association of School Resource Officers

• SB 11 reformed a lot, but did not do enough
• Increase the number of officers, she is the only SRO in a 12-school district
• There needs to be additional training for, not only teachers, but principles, students, and even parents (reunification process training, should be a part of the EOP)
• Bowers – Is follow up something we can start doing?
  • There must be an evaluation in place and ensure people are following up on training, we owe that to our kids

 

Charley Wilkinson, Executive Director, Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas

• Dedicated career to bettering officers, making it harder to be an officer, increase training, better officers are more valuable to community
• Better officers should get paid more

 

Kevin Lawrence, Texas Municipal Police Association

• Agrees with all previous testimony, states they will always be a resource to Legislature
• White – What do you see we need to work on for school this year?
  • Lawrence – Hardening schools is something we must do, has not been done since Santa Fe, recruiting process in law enforcement has deteriorated, a lot of trouble finding qualified candidates
  • Wilkinson – Officers need to be well qualified, the more training they receive, the more risk they feel, can’t mandate courage
  • Wilkinson – CLEAT gave a no confidence rating to TCOLE this last year, has never happened before, believes they have fully resorted to check-box training, need to reform agency back to what it was

 

Nicole Golden, Executive Director, Texas Gun Sense

• Only bipartisan gun violence prevention group founded in Texas, mission is to prevent gun violence with commonsense policies and partnerships with stakeholders
• Texas is facing a crisis; CDC data shows gun violence deaths of Texas children have doubled since 2015
• Data has shown that school hardening does not prevent school shootings
• Extreme risk protection orders is an evidence-based tool that works, the year after Florida’s red flag law went into effect, 255 petitions were filed due to serious threats made by individuals
• Advocated for a stronger vetting process for firearms, transfer through unlicensed sellers
• Background check and gun laws work, provide a safety net for dangerous individuals
• Have also advocated for safe gun storage laws and for domestic violence victims, but instead laws have been passed to weaken gun regulations
• 75% of Texans support red flag laws, 90% of Texans support universal background checks, 80% of Texans support raising age of automatic weapon to 21
• US Senate just passed bipartisan gun safety legislation, follow in their lead
• White – Looking at your statistics, how are we measuring gun related deaths?
  • Gun violence comes in many forms, firearm suicides are extremely high, interpersonal violence, community violence, unintentional discharges
• White – Have there been an increase or decrease in murders in Texas?
  • Gun deaths were around 3,000 consistently, in 2020 they rose to over 4,000
• White – Murders have ranged from 1,130-1,409 since 2011, there has been an uptick but overall has been pretty stable
  • There is not one form of gun violence, we need to address everyday gun violence as well
• Johnson – Our second witness advocated for guns everywhere, is her approach correct?
  • As the gun laws and regulations gotten more relaxed, more people have died at the hands of guns
• Johnson – Rep. Shaeffer pushed back and said we have effective laws in place to take weapons from people, what would you say in response to his statements?
  • I agreed with your response, if all the “laws” were working effectively, then why are they not working, red flag laws would be another level of tools to prevent violence
• Johnson – In your position, is an extreme risk protective order the least restrictive thing we could do to intervene in that moment?
  • Yes, it is a civil process, subject could have an attorney, weapon could be reunited
• Johnson – So if we were to believe Rep. Shaefer’s statements about criminal law, what we are talking about would be less restrictive?
  • Yes, because it is all civil law
• Johnson – If we contemplated the mental development of children, and picked that as the age of ownership for firearms, how many shootings could we prevent?
  • Not sure
• Johnson – If we wait until age 25 until the frontal lobe is fully developed, it would be 25%
• Goodwin – What would be costs be for your suggestive changes, whether raising the age or red flag laws?
  • Not a heavy cost involved
• Hefner – Reads Chapter 573 of the Health and Safety Code stating a law enforcement officer can confiscate a weapon for someone that is arrested, “Rep. Shaefer was not lying”, the tools are already in place
  • We are not disputing Rep. Shaefer’s claims, we are saying they are not enough, one must be arrested while a red flag law is more preventative
• Hefner – You are advocating for taking away someone’s God given right without any due process, I will not support that
  • There is due process, a judge must order the extreme risk protective order
• Johnson to Hefner – The Code you are referring to is for a mental health detainment, a person is physically arrested due to a mental health concern for this to occur, very niche qualifications, this would be more freedom restricting
• Hefner – We need to be careful before taking people’s rights way without due process
• Johnson – You are talking about seizing people’s bodies
• Hefner – People are arrested every day for probable cause
• Johnson – This is not probable cause, a mental health detainment is not an arrest
• Frank – Where is the best source of data to compare across states? Does not seem to be a difference between red states with relaxed gun laws, and blue states with strict gun laws
  • Giffords website is the best to compare states, states with stricter gun laws have less gun deaths, California has 8.2 per 100,000 and we have 14.2
• Patterson – The total gun deaths in Texas, how many number are suicides?
  • Typically, 60%
• Patterson – How many would be accidental discharges?
  • Do not have that number in front of me, but it is not known to be high
• Patterson – How many homicides are shotguns? Handguns?
  • Handguns make a significant number of gun deaths, do not have exact number
• Patterson – What is the average age of people who commit homicides?
  • Do not have that number
• Patterson – What percentage of gun deaths are mass shootings?
  • Relatively lower number
• Patterson – In these discussions, we throw around inflated statistics and carefully worded polls, the polls that matter are election results
• Patterson – Would you concede that taking away the right to carry a firearm for an adult, under the age of 21, would not have prevented the tragedy?
  • It would have prevented Uvalde for sure
• Johnson – Refutes Rep. Patterson’s claims with a Texas Tribune article, Rep. Patterson says he will need a more reliable source than the Texas Tribune
• White – Reminds Committee to be civil, thinks there is a problem with people using guns in this state, cites several data points relating to Reps. Johnson and Patterson’s claims
• Bowers – Chair White called Homeland Security Committee and told us to come with an open heart, we need to hear the voice of all Texans in this moment, whether we agree with them or not

 

Andrea Brauer, Advocate, Gun Violence Prevention Advocate

• We are trying to prevent all gun deaths, regardless of the cause, and our proposals would reduce these deaths
• Gun deaths surpassed traffic deaths, number one cause of death of children
• Lays out 8 different gun safety bills that have been passed in a bipartisan manner in different states, none would penalize law abiding gun owners:
  • Mandatory reporting of lost and stolen guns
  • State law prohibiting those that are mentally ill in institutions from owning weapons, passed Homeland Security in 85^th session
  • Straw purchases ban, Rep. Geren passed something similar last session
  • Suicide prevention bill, purely educational, NRA lobbied against it
  • Be more direct in gun violence language with state agencies
  • Provide educational materials to gun dealers
  • Raise age to 21 for automatic weapons, or at least require an LTC
  • Red flag law, can be crafted in a conservative way
• Leach – Senator Chris Murphy, leading Democrat in gun negotiations, said something publicly yesterday, “with the passage of this bill, this will no question allow us to do more in the future”, gravely concerned that passing these laws would lead to extreme gun reform
  • We know we have no power, I am not trying to do away with the 2A, neither is Senator Murphy, I know we will not repeal open carry, I am only asking for these 8 bills
• Leach – When it comes to our fundamental constitutional rights, our job is to hold the line, I don’t believe this is the end for you guys
• Patterson – I believe you said the leading cause of death for children is gun violence, I’m on the CDC website right now and the leading cause of deaths is “accidents”, please provide your data to the Committee
• Johnson – Corrects Rep. Patterson, finds CDC data witness cited, please send data to all Members, you have seen success of red flag laws in Florida, correct?
  • Yes
• Bowers – Do you believe your recommendations would move the needle and have us closer to solutions in Texas
  • Yes, if people work together

 

Aurora Vasquez, Vice President: State Policy & Engagement, Sandy Hook Promise

• Four areas of emphasis for policy changes:
• Violence prevention education for students – SAVE Students Act, piece of model education that institutionalizes violence prevention training, evidence-based suicide prevention training, general violence training, anonymous reporting
• Raising the age, raise age to 21 for certain types of weapons, not interested in a sweeping approach, already exists in handguns so it will pass constitutional muster
• Landgraf – I’m curious if there is one particular data source you would recommend?
  • We tend to look at CDC, and for a law enforcement lens, the Secret Service
• Johnson – Can you tell the Members of the two-decade freeze for the CDC to do gun violence research?
  • There was a period they didn’t have enough resources to do gun violence research, would have been beneficial to the country
• Temporary transfer of firearms, very similar to red flag laws, crisis aversion, Sandy Hook model introduced in Kentucky which has a strong gun culture, thinks it would work in Texas as well
• Landgraf – The Kentucky legislation, is that SB 229?
  • It is SB 278
• Closing the private sale loophole, how to define a stranger

 

Dr. Lauren Gambill, Pediatric Hospitalist, Texas Pediatric Society

• Has taken care of children injured by guns since the first day of her career
• The number one cause of children fatalities in now firearm related according to recent studies
• Texas just started reporting firearm data to CDC in 2019, this year will be the first-year detailed data will be available for Texas, encourage Legislature and Department of State Health services to analyze
• Child firearm access prevention laws should be implemented
• Johnson – You are saying we should put a rider in the budget to collect data?
  • Yes
• Johnson – You mentioned 16- or 17-year-olds with suicidal idealizations, and safe storage would keep them from having access?
  • Correct
• Johnson – At what age do you think individuals have reached the mental capacity to buy a firearm?
  • There is not a simple answer, even brain development has a spectrum, generally shows that most children’s brains are not fully developed until age 25

 

The Honorable Jerry Patterson, Former Texas Land Commissioner & Former Texas State Senator

• Passed concealed carry law in 1995 in Legislature
• There is a way to have a “red flag law” that is constitutional, does not take 2A away from anyone, allows a criminal complaint for false reporting, and would do good
• The only thing that will make a measurable difference is to identify those who have expressed evil intent and remove their firearms, can be done in a constitutional matter
• Shaefer was incorrect, Chapter 573 is directed to mentally ill individuals
• The reduction of gun deaths in the 1990s was not due to the concealed handgun license, but also did not cause “shootouts on the street”

 

Derek Cohen, Ph.D., Vice President of Policy, Texas Public Policy Foundation

• Shooting in Uvalde highlighted a lot of failures
• Under current laws of immunity, survivors of Uvalde will never have their day in court, believes it would be reasonable to sue the police agency for the failure of respond
• Guardianship program needs complete vertical buy in, completely unilateral decision right now, needs to make it a partnership
• Johnson – You talked about suing law enforcement for failed response, what about suing the gun manufacturers?
  • That would be vicarious liability, and that would be a bigger stretch than the government agency
• Johnson – If you want to open liability, why do you only want to open it to government agencies?
  • I’m not sure of any crime the corporation committed
• Johnson – So you think law enforcement committed a crime?
  • There needs to be a cause of action, in your example there was not a cause of action
• Johnson – Texas Supreme Court said we cannot sue gun manufacturers, are you saying you agree with this?
  • Yes, I reject vicarious liability for evil acts
• US Senate bill does several things well, one is background checks for those underage of 21, disqualifying youth sealed information that is not in NICS system would be added
• We should look at the way we report information to NICS
• We need to reevaluate having ISDs run their own police departments, this has created an interoperability nightmare, incompatible training, incompatible deployments