The House Committee on Homeland Security & Public Safety met on June 28 to consider an interim charge on options to increase the number of School Marshals available and identifying current statutory requirements that limit utilization of the program. The Committee also heard public testimony.

This report is intended to give you an overview and highlight of the discussions on the various topics the committee took up. This report is not a verbatim transcript of the hearing; it is based upon what was audible or understandable to the observer and the desire to get details out as quickly as possible with few errors or omissions.

 

Mike Morath, Texas Education Agency

  • Was present at Santa Fe shortly following the shooting, being prepared is the reality; need to mitigate and be prepared to meet force with force
  • TEA has no statutory authority over school safety, local school boards have the direct authority
  • P King- TEA has no authority with regard to school security or safety?
    • Generally correct; we have broad authority over school districts
    • Our ability to provide data on performance and practice is limited; we get most data from Texas Commission on Law Enforcement or Texas School Safety Center
  • P King- You do not get data on School Marshals, etc.?
    • Correct
  • P King- So, there are no standards for what a safe school is?
    • This is likely an area for legislation, no designations exist for building safety & this is likely worth building
    • There are not standards for safety; just have basic audit requirements
    • There are standard response protocol requirements, but no scorecards
  • School Safety Center is an invaluable resource, generally we are referring districts to the center to receive training
  • P King – What is involved in a safety audit?
    • School Safety center can speak to this in detail, applies to a variety of things & is a compliance-based process
    • We reached out to the School Safety Center to check if any Texas schools were out of compliance and within 45 days every district in the state were compliant with all aspects of those standards
  • These kinds of events are not going away, TEA reminded school districts about resources and access to assistance prior to the shooting in Santa Fe
  • From a standpoint of statutory recommendations, Santa Fe was doing all of the right things
  • Dallas re-invested bond money into many school hardening practices
    • SIGMA prepared a top to bottom assessment to whether the attacks were preventable after Columbine; created a recommended road map for all schools to follow to engage in threat practices
    • Will have significant effects to increase safety in our schools
  • School Marshal Program was included in TEA letter of best practices, can include arming other staff aside from teachers; optional program with training available for free
  • Have also heightened law enforcement collaboration, have seen things like Hays CISD having law enforcement stop by during their patrols to increase presence
  • Have advertised existence of secret service report and availability of Mental Health First Aid (MHFA)
  • There has been an additional infusion of $62 million from the federal government for school districts to use to improve safety, TEA is working to ensure they know how to access this
  • King- Is that part of the current budget or out of the Gov’s plan?
    • identified this, but it is new money from the federal government
  • There is also a $75 million competitive grant nationally, trying to access these funds
  • Regarding Gov’s plan recommendations, TEA has begun informing districts about the Marshal program, have been working with School Safety Center on ways to improve policy landscape/safety procedures, have worked to expand local mental health partnerships with HHSC, etc.
  • Would likely want this type of information exemption from Public Information Act, would not want potential attackers to know about security procedures
  • Schaefer- I have heard anecdotal evidence from the school districts about how teachers are discouraged from sending aggressive students to the principles; some pressure is being put on teachers to keep disruptive students in the classroom
    • There are state and federal requirements on discipline reporting that could cause this pressure, but likely not the primary weakness
    • We are actively looking at this to see if change is needed in data collection and usage of the data
    • Bigger root causes are likely larger; appropriate training for school leaders and teachers, we are likely not systemically supporting teachers with ways to discourage students from acting out & with ways to make referrals
  • Schaefer- Do you believe there is a problem with administrators discouraging classroom teachers from removing disruptive students?
    • Yes, I do believe this is a problem in Texas schools, cannot speak to how widespread it is
    • We need to improve the level of support, so the administrators and teachers know how to remove the child properly
  • Schaefer- Does that contribute to learning outcomes for other students?
    • Absolutely, also the outcomes of the disruptive student
  • Schaefer- Do you think state can look at resources provided on how to handle disruptive children?
    • Yes, part of our role is to look at training given to teachers in this arena
    • You will hear stories of discipline problems & improving level of support to teachers/admin is a possible response, outcomes tend to improve with this
    • Discouraging referral to bolster numbers, but teacher statistics drop
  • Schaefer- Is it possible that we’re going to get more specific recommendations from the TEA by January?
    • It is possible, we have programs related to this, technical experts, etc.; can help dozens of campuses currently, but large capacity doesn’t exist currently
  • Schaefer- Do you think there is a disincentive financially? Is there a situation where schools lose funding if too many students were referred to the principal’s office?
    • No, what happens is the school is subject to heightened scrutiny
  • Metcalf- Why are we not seeing as many as School Marshals, guardians, or ISDs hiring their own police force?
    • With Marshals, it is a combo of awareness and comfort level, also some complicated management questions to think through
    • With district police forces, comes down to resource trade-offs; Every officer is one fewer staff member of another variety
  • J Johnson- In respect to Chapter 37, TEA does not include safety aspects, does that include SROs or safety personnel?
    • Those are generally local employees
  • J Johnson- So does TEA qualify any personnel?
    • Yes, all the employee categories that are included in Chapter 21 of the Texas Education code, but does not include officers on campus
  • J Johnson- Shouldn’t we be looking at certain minimum requirements for these personnel from TEA?
    • Not sure I would advocate for TEA to have more oversight in this area, don’t see a lack of will on part of local districts to keep kids safe
    • With Marshals, there is generally a law enforcement connection; guardian approach is significantly more deferential to local decisions
  • J Johnson- There are already 217 districts with a guardian program in place, should be a minimum set of criteria that we know every one of these districts would have followed
  • J Johnson- I’m not trying to take away local control by any means, but I would like to see minimum requirements that each school can go above and beyond from if they see fit.
  • P King- We do have some with standards beyond the Marshal program requirements
  • J Johnson and P King discuss the concept, P King notes that regulation could also include some safe harbor provisions for districts
  • Hinojosa- Regarding the $62 million from federal funds, was this the Title IV money?
    • Yes
  • Hinojosa- Concerned that Title IV funds were going to be used for other purposes like mental health supports
    • We haven’t tried to put any explicit roadblocks up, have tried to heighten awareness of options through Title IV; each district spends Title IV as they see fit and according to the Title guidelines
  • Hinojosa- These are funds that we were already planning on using anyway?
    • Yes, fairly large infusion from the federal government; TEA is trying to spread the awareness that these are new additive funds
  • Hinojosa- Have heard there is a limit to pedagogy hours
    • Not consistent with my understanding, thought there was a minimum
  • Hinojosa- With inappropriate student-educator conduct, I have heard complaints and read material about teachers displaying inappropriate behavior, our kids don’t always know to report these things. I do have concerns about teachers with firearms when there is already a power balance issue within the classroom.
    • Social media tends to be the primary concern here. TEA has done a lot of training about appropriate relationships in the classroom, we are taking a prevention approach. The policies that this body has adopted have been very helpful.
  • Hinojosa- Would go a long way also if we were educating our kids
    • This is happening pretty sporadically
  • P King- Would like to steer this back towards the School Marshal program
  • Hinojosa- My concern is that we are arming these teachers
    • These are not the teachers getting armed, process for selecting School Marshals is very rigorous

 

Kim Vickers, Texas Commission on Law Enforcement

  • P King- What does it take to qualify to be a Marshal? What kind of training is involved? How did you develop this curriculum? What kind of psychological assessments are used?
    • Patterned after a federal Air Marshal program. 80 hours of training was the standard set. We created this based on a committee comprised of law enforcement and other experts. 16 hour renewal every 2 years. Those that have regular contact with students, must keep their firearm locked and secured in a safe.
  • Blanco- So the law governing school marshals lists the specific individuals who receive information about the marshal, is there a legal mechanism for responding officers to be made aware of a non-uniformed district employee?
    • If a school appoints school marshals, they are to notify 4 different entities.
    • Director of DPS, employer, chief law enforcement of municipality/sheriff’s department
  • Blanco- Is there a protocol in place in which responding officers are made aware of these staff?
    • No sir
  • Blanco- From a law enforcement standpoint, isn’t that concerning?
    • It is alarming, potential for an officer to shoot a non-uniformed Marshal or Guardian is high
  • Blanco- Would you say that this body needs to come up with something that addresses this concern?
    • Yes sir
  • Wray- Messy situation, doesn’t want to add additional administrative burden but does not have any suggestions.
  • P King- Where is training offered?
    • Any place with an academy training certification. Just had a large class in Abilene, another one in San Antonio next week. Not many academies are offering this service yet.
  • P King- How does each academy price these courses?
    • Each academy does it themselves. There isn’t uniformity currently, which is one of my concerns.
  • School Marshals are required to have a license to carry, in addition to undergoing a psychological evaluation, performed by a psychologist. Believes it’s comparable to the evaluation an officer would receive.
  • We put School Marshals through actual scenario-based training and EMT services. They also familiarize themselves with police response and how to prevent interfering with that.
  • Blanco- What system is in place to alert law enforcement of district employees not in uniform that may be armed?
    • It is a requirement that the school alert four different entities of the appointment.
  • Blanco- What protocol is in place to make police aware of this Marshal
  • Blanco- From a law enforcement standpoint, how does this go?
    • It is alarming. I try to stay unbiased.
  • Blanco- Would you agree that this legislature needs to do something to make the law enforcement aware of who is armed on campus?
    • I would agree
  • Wray- Don’t know what an additional administrative burden will accomplish. Stands by arming teachers who are experienced with weapons.
  • J Johnson- If a kid has an interaction with a Marshal and there is a physical altercation, does the Marshal have the right to stand his ground?
    • That’s where the use of force training comes into play. Only if there is a threat of serious injury and death can they draw on them. This is no different than anyone else carrying a weapon, the laws of deadly force still apply.
  • J Johnson- Concerned with the slippery slope we are going down, wants to lessen violence in schools not increase it.
  • No perfect ratio exists for number of Marshals to students. It will be different for each school and each setting. 1-1000 is not accurate.
  • Hinojosa- I’d like an understanding of when it is legal to pull a gun for a Marshal. Would a physical interaction allow for this?
    • All scenario based. Serious bodily injury or death, no requirement that the person be armed with a weapon. Each situation dictates a different response. You are judged on what you perceived was happening. Comes down to “reasonable perception”
  • Hinojosa- I wonder if school districts even know about what is reasonable. How are the districts supposed to know what is appropriate and what isn’t?
  • J Johnson- What can cause School Marshals to lose their license?
    • If they lose their license to carry

 

Kathy Martinez-Prather, Texas School Safety Center

  • In FY 2017 we trained 435 districts in the state
  • P King- What does a safety audit look like? Do you issue a report card of some kind?
    • Self-reporting process, they report to us and we make it public through a report that determines school safety levels.
  • P King- What would you say is the biggest impediment to schools?
    • Capacity issue, we are overloaded with technical assistance requests. We have a small staff, and we took a budget cut last session. This has made it difficult.

 

Pete Blair, Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center

  • Warns committee about listening to data, much of it is skewed and not appropriate here. We partner with the FBI to collect our data.
  • If you arm people and put them in schools, they must be both trained and screened. There also must be a standard for them to meet.
  • P King- How many fulltime employees do you have
    • 30, with 2 full time working with CJD
  • P. King- Asks about difference in teachers staying in room during a shooting and “framing the door” with a handgun, as opposed to going out and hunting the shooter
    • Certainly a different skillset that does not require as much expertise, but training still needed.
  • P. King- How many hours of training for something like that?
    • Not a fan of saying X number of hours; I believe in competency.
  • P King- What do you think of the School Marshal program?
    • It is a good basic program to start, however no requirement for reoccurring training is something we are concerned with. You need to continue training on an ongoing basis to stay sharp. Solo Officer Response Course is applicable to the School Marshals. Believes ALERRT is the best organization to handle this task.
  • P King- How are you funded?
    • At the state level we are funded through CJD.
  • Believes setting a standard is essential to ensure safety
  • Warns the committee about enforcing a lockbox policy- most accidental shootings occur while moving a weapon from one location to the next. Advises against locking up weapons
  • Warns the committee about frangible ammunition, produced at a lower quality and has a higher potential to misfire compared to a traditional round
  • P King- What does a core competency program look like for a School Marshal?
    • Identify what skill sets you are looking for. Lecture block and physical skills test follow finding a candidate. It’s difficult to lock in an hour requirement

 

Craig Miller, Dallas ISD Chief of Police

  • The criteria for the Marshals and standards for training is important for everyone to know
  • We need to have one plan that all schools who want to arm teachers would use, we can all be on the same page and the students will be better served

 

Craig Bessent, Wylie ISD

  • The intent of the School Marshal program was never to force teachers to arm themselves, it is voluntarily only
  • Our first choice would be a police officer, sandy hook showed us this
  • The level of training School Marshals go through is alert level 1, and their primary job is to stop the killing
    • If a gunman is shooting at a School Marshal, he isn’t killing children
  • A School Marshal is a defensive role, we teach our Marshals that the only time they can act is when there is a threat to all students. Despite being protected by the self defense penal code
  • Just because you must act, does not mean you have to draw your weapon. We are trying to teach these people actual skills for deescalating situations
  • Schaefer- A benefit of a Marshal, is student familiarity. They know who belongs and who does not belong.
    • Prevention and intervention are important concepts here.
  • At Wiley, we train with the Abilene Police Department, register our weapons with them and work well the department
  • Working with local law enforcement is paramount to being successful here
  • Psychological evaluations cannot be optional, they must be mandatory here
  • Carelessness and negligence will result in a suspension of Marshal privileges for 10 years, same thing goes with accidental discharge

 

David Walker, Christoval ISD

  • We are a small school district, so money is a giant issue for us. We can’t afford a police department just for schools
  • Guardian plan has justification:
    • The deterrence factors- this is an anonymous program
    • No waiting for law enforcement- one of the biggest threats to loss of life is critical blood loss
  • Believes that anonymity is an asset in keeping schools safe, people don’t know who is armed and who is not. It will serve as a preventative measure
  • For under $30,000 a year I can keep this program running
  • Long guns are provided for Marshals, they are purchased and issued by the school districts
  • Hand guns are personally provided by the Marshal themselves
  • Employs a ‘defensive frangible bullet’ in his school district
  • Handguns training is more than just marksmanship- its overall responsibility as well
  • We pay a stipend to ensure the candidates stay proficient with their firearms (ammunition, range costs) in addition to money budgeted for the trainer
  • J Johnson- Do you train your guardians in the area of mental health? By seeing a child in crisis, dealing with children in crisis etc.
    • That training is program wide and not just specifically done for the guardian themselves. If something is brewing, the guardians and administrators begin communicating
  • We have hallways that are more than 100 yards long, if an active shooter arrives wielding an AK-47, the guardian is then at a tactical disadvantage in stopping that threat

 

Jeri Skrocki, Hays County Sheriff’s Department

  • Routine leads to complacency, complacency leads to death
  • Our program has trained 200,000 faculty, students and staff in active shooter training
  • Urges and cautions legislature that we do something to meet this need before August, beginning with mental health and leakage training
  • Believes in the success of the see something say something program, but wants to see the system more widely used and wants to decrease the time between seeing and reporting
  • We have to select people who will be at the same level as law enforcement to take a human life, I have thousands of hours of training and do not think that one 16 hour course is sufficient for an officer
  • We have to teach these people how to make those split-second decisions while still protecting students.
  • Metcalf- What percentage of your schools are being secured by Dallas ISD officers?
    • Miller- 40%
  • In the event that law enforcement recognizes a guardian or Marshal, they will have to detain that person

 

Molly Bursey, Moms Demand Action

  • Provides testimony warning committee against arming teachers and the potential repercussions that could occur as a result of this programs expansion.
  • Teachers having guns sends a bad and dangerous message to students
  • Students will not learn if they are consumed by fear
  • Advocates passage of red flag laws in Texas

 

Mary Lynn Rice-Lively, Texas Gun Sense

  • Provides testimony warning committee against arming teachers and the potential repercussions that could occur as a result of this program’s expansion.
  • State needs to monitor standards to increase training for the guardian program
  • Advocates passage of red flag laws in Texas
  • Advocates mandating firearm storage laws- with penalty
  • Advocates increased background checks for those trying to purchase firearms
  • Schaefer- School official earlier testified that in 5 years there were no incidents of malpractice or accidents, do you find that compelling?
    • That program sounds well-conceived and well planned.
  • Hinojosa- It is my understanding that the guardian program has no obligation regarding reporting, we don’t really know much about these programs.

 

Terry Holcomb, Texas Carry

  • Law enforcement are not first responders, they are second because they respond after an event has occurred
  • Guardian program is the gold standard, teachers and staff are the first responders no matter what
  • Advocates for a basic standard statewide to enforce the guardian program
  • If we are going to have a guardian program, we need shooting qualifications that would mirror the FBI’s program
  • People won’t need hours of basic firearm training, those who want this certification likely already know how to shoot
  • School Marshal program is good right now, but needs significant improvements
    • Needs a significant education program going to our school districts to facilitate understanding
    • Marshals need to carry on their person 100% of the time, no time to get to a safe during an active shooter
    • Eliminate the frangible ammunition requirement- this ammunition will get you killed. Frangible ammunition will not stop a shooter unless it is in the head.
    • Provides FBI study speaking to the inapplicability of frangible ammunition
  • We need local police, Marshals and guardians are working together. All 3 of these programs working together will stop school shooters
  • School Marshals should not be anonymous. Knowing and seeing law enforcement presence will aid prevention
  • Shooters choose school because they can reach the maximum amount of chaos while receiving very little resistance
  • Believes schools need to be held accountable for the lost lives if school shootings occur and they have rejected the Marshal/guardian programs
  • Johnson- Are you mandating that teachers have to be Marshals?
    • No
  • Hinojosa- would you advocate for the flipside? If someone was killed or hurt by mistake would they have liability?
    • Yes

 

Alice Tripp, Texas State Rifle Association

  • Gives history of guardian and Marshal programs and their usefulness in schools.
  • Speaks to the importance of having someone “who wants to do it”
    • Argues that their usefulness will be greater than those who don’t want to perform said role

 

Cynthia Marble, SIGMA Threat Management

  • Sheffield- I respect your background, but I want to hear your opinion on what was said today
    • Heard good information from both sides, these acts are very quick. You do not have time for police to respond. As a private citizen, I would prefer law enforcement in schools. This would serve as a good deterrent.
  • Majority of those perpetrating these acts are suicidal individuals, there is no easy answer to this problem
  • The presence of armed law enforcement would serve as a better deterrent
  • Sheffield- Given that there isn’t enough law enforcement, what do you think about armed teachers?
    • Must be the right training. I’ll reiterate my colleague, I’ve spent 27 years learning this. It’s not just shooting one time a year. These skills take work.
  • Prior to the shootings, studies show that at least one other person knew about it before it happened. These usually aren’t the parents, but other students
  • They fear for their anonymity should they report a classmate, protect the students
  • Leakage occurs via text message, conversation and social media. Not direct threats typically
  • No profile exists yet. Most attacks are perpetrated by male students, however female outliers do exist. Should not generalize as we do not know facts about school shooters
  • Sheffield- Trends in family backgrounds? Anything specific?
    • Some are foster children, some from well-off homes
  • Readily available mental health resources in schools will be leaps and bounds better for school shooting prevention
  • In a broad sense, if you have a child broadcasting suicidal ideology it is very possible you can involuntary commit them
  • Guerra- Issue is that parents are in denial as well, no parent wants to admit that their child has a problem
  • Schools feel like the biggest roadblocks to improvements are financial
  • Prevention is about getting people in crisis the help that they need to not be a risk to themselves or to society

 

Spotlight on Public Testimony

Many students and teachers were present to speak, both for and against guardian/Marshal programs

 

Laura Brewer, MDA/public educator

  • Provides testimony in opposition to guardian/Marshal programs
  • Concerned about safety of her students if more guns were brought into schools

 

Mark Brisco, Open Carry Texas

  • Provides testimony in support of guardian/Marshal programs
  • Argues that you cannot get a firearm out of storage quickly enough to respond to an active shooter
  • References teachers giving up their lives to save students, states that we need to give them the tools to do so successfully

 

Jimmy Hammond, Self

  • Provides testimony in support of guardian/Marshal programs

 

Catherine Marosky, Self

  • Provides testimony in opposition to guardian/Marshal programs

 

Ted Molina Raab, Texas AFT

  • Appreciates recognition of difficulty for teachers of removing students according to statutory authority, many have faced issues with this
  • School safety is not a problem that will be addressed simply in one committee, but is a systemic problem
  • Texas AFT has been very involved in Houston area with trauma training, has seen benefits for those in the area whole felt threatened or were affected by incident in Santa Fe
  • Heard nothing in prior hearings on whether veterans or retired law enforcement could play a role in school safety; this is a valuable talent pool
  • Texas AFT members feel very strongly that districts should be funded sufficiently to hire dedicated, professional, certified, trained law enforcement personnel; do not support arming teachers and other employees whose primary mission is not direct school safety
  • Opposed the School Marshal bill, would oppose expansion as well
  • State needs to provide resources to school districts & allow local districts to make decisions right for their community to ensure safety
  • J Johnson – We know that most of these kids and adults who commit these crimes have some form of mental illness; arming teachers/guardians/Marshals does not address the crime, but only looks to minimize number of affected individuals
  • J Johnson – Should put more resources into preventing incidents before we start arming teachers

 

CJ Grisham, Open Carry Texas

  • Worked as a military security specialist for military bases
  • Seems that there is a reluctance to allow veterans and others to assist in security, police seem to want more police and push seems to be for more government; this approach has failed already
  • Should not use MOS as sole basis to determine who is qualified within the veteran community, veterans are experienced and trained in a variety of security situations, including cooks, engineers, etc.
  • Best way to expand Marshal program is to remove ability of districts to determine if they want the program; program should not be mandatory, but should not prevent employees from participating

 

Amy Littlejohn, Self

  • Provides testimony in opposition to guardian/Marshal programs