House Mass Violence Prevention & Community Safety – January 9, 2020

The House Select Committee on Mass Violence Prevention & Community Safety met on January 9, 2020 to hear from mental health professionals, law enforcement and law professionals concerning the following interim charge:

“Evaluate current protocols and extreme risk indicators used to identify potential threats and consider options for improving the dissemination of information between federal, state, and local entities and timely and appropriate intervention of mental health.”

Technical difficulties were present at the beginning of the live stream and portions of the hearing were not captured.

This report is intended to give you an overview and highlight of the discussions on the various topics the committee took up. It is not a verbatim transcript of the hearing, but is based upon what was audible or understandable to the observer and the desire to get details out as quickly as possible with few errors or omissions.

Invited Testimony

Panel 1

Dr. Joseph Penn, Society of Psychiatric Physicians

• There are certain identifiers that shooters share such as anger and hate.
• The FBI is looking for atypical behavior rather than people who just have mental illness.
  • Data of this behavior can be found from social media posts and comments to other individuals.
• We are requesting additional funding for forensic psychiatry fellowship and funding to educate professionals and the public at large.
• Psychotropic medications do not cause mass shootings.
• Mass shootings cause a ripple effect in society.
• The Consortium on Risk-Based Firearm Policy has recommended to:
  • Strengthen state law to temporarily restrict individuals from purchasing or owning firearms after an involuntary hospitalization.
  • Consider restrictions on the ability to purchase or possess firearms that reflect evidence-based risks of danger.
• The Texas Society of Psychiatric Physicians recommends:
  • Developing a system for law enforcement to remove firearms for those who show an immediate threat of harm or when a threat of harm is credible, but not imminent.
  • Develop a system that gives family members the right to petition for the removal of firearms.
  • Clarify Texas law to be able for mental health professionals to disclose information to the proper authority (like HB 3519).

Dr. Alan Tyroch, Texas Medical Association

• Describes the August 3 shooting in El Paso.
• The term “gun control” should be changed to how can we reduce firearm related violence?
• Gun violence should be approached as a public health issue.
  • This point has been brought up to President Trump and Sen. Cruz.
• The rate of gun-related deaths has declined from the rates of the 70s and 80s.
• Texas is ranked as the 24^th safest state in terms of gun violence.
• Less than 1% of all gun-related deaths are due to mass shootings. However, their frequency and growth in scale is concerning.
• Describes the 2017 Las Vegas shooting. In April, we will talk to a panel of those hospitals who took in the injured and how they dealt with the situation.
• Texas has three of the top ten deadliest shootings it the United States in the last ten years. Notes other shootings in Texas and other states.
• The number of guns citizens own makes it impractical to confiscate or buy them back.
• The TMA, backed by the Committee on Trauma, created the following recommendations to address firearm injury in the state.
  • Educate Texans about firearm safety and the potential hazards of owning guns.
  • Promote the Texas 100 Education Certification Program developed by Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife.
  • Ensure physicians can talk to patients about the hazards of, and best practices for ownership of, firearms in a clinical setting.
  • Enforce federal and state gun laws that are already in place.
  • Promote the use of trigger locks and locked gun cabinets.
  • Equip DSHS to perform studies on firearms and public health and participate in national studies.
  • Develop a process to implement protective orders.
  • Align state HIPAA laws with federal to disclose eminent danger information.
• TMA recognizes that gun ownership is associated with individual freedom and many people own firearms for protection.

Questions for Panel 1

• Rep. Darby- Dr. Louden (testimony was missed by the video), have you published your work?
  • I have published work on the general link between mental illness and violent crime.
  • I have resources that I can refer you to.
• Rep. Blanco- Dr. Penn (part of testimony was missed by the video) you mentioned that social media behavior must be looked at. Is the TSPP, or any national organization, working with social media platforms to implement risk-assessment protocols?
  • Threat assessment is a complicated and multi-disciplinary approach.
  • We have a lot of education we need to do in order to ask the right questions concerning post history.
• Rep. Gonzalez- many say that we cannot legislate hatred away, but there are public policy solutions out there like school prevention policies and HB 366. What recommendations would you give us for public policy solutions?
  • Dr. Louden- The El Paso shooter posted his manifesto online before the incident, so social media could be a potential avenue.
    • The issue is what post criteria would illustrate intent for violence.
    • We need to investigate the differences between the two groups who post hate online. Those who act on it and those who do not.
  • Rep. Gonzales- maybe there is a more proactive response in creating a digital citizenship curriculum to educate people how to navigate these things.
  • Dr. Penn- the main issue is that people do not want to seek mental health treatment due to stigma. Individuals need to be able to access counseling treatment.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- has there been a profile done on some of the mass shooters and did they have any post-secondary education?
  • There was no response to these questions.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- the profile we have is that the shooter is a young Anglo male who has had a recent trauma. Is there anything that has dug a little deeper into that?
  • Dr. Louden- It is hard to learn directly from the source because the shooter usually dies in the event.
    • They usually feel like they are being targeted or holding a grudge and the world is treating them unfairly.
    • Once again, it is challenging because there are those who hold those beliefs and do not act on them.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- would Jeffery Dahmer be classified as perpetrator of mass violence?
  • Dr. Louden- no, mass violence happens over a short period of time like what happened here.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- what venue would be appropriate to start educating the public in terms of categorizing on a spectrum those who are dangerous to society? We need to also investigate protecting those who may be unfairly accused.
  • Dr. Penn- In Sandy Hook the shooter had autistic spectrum disorder and those individuals are usually not violent, but he was obsessed with it.
    • The issue with a spectrum that it is hard to pin down characteristics.
    • The perpetrators are white males, but differences are unknown.
    • We must be cautious and not take peoples’ civil liberties away if they have not done anything.
• Rep. Geren- Dr. Tyroch, you mentioned that doctors would be able to counsel a patient if they had a gun issue, but how would you determine if a patient has a gun issue?
  • Dr. Tyroch- it is not easy. The primary care physician would need to know that patient.
    • Developing a history on the patient’s experience with guns and questioning how they are stored etc.
    • In many of these cases, someone knew the perpetrator should not have had guns.
  • Dr. Penn- we should use similar model like the one we use when someone is suicidal. It is a collaboration and we ask if they have the means to do so.
• Rep. Geren- concerning HIPAA, can a physician go to law enforcement with a medical issue that they think is an imminent threat?
  • Dr. Penn- Gives background on the Tarasoff case and duty to warn.
    • There needs to be reasonable suspicion and, possibly, an emergency hold.
    • Issues include money, accessibility and custody responsibilities.
    • TSA, TSPP, law enforcement and the legislature need to work together to look at HIPAA laws since Texas is not a Tarasoff state.
  • Dr. Tyroch gives an example of a patient he had where the system could not hold him, and he eventually killed himself.
  • Rep. Geren gives an anecdote about a friend who refused help and treatment that eventually killed himself. Some gun violence you cannot stop.
  • Dr. Tyroch- suicide is a big part of the gun violence problem.
  • Rep. Geren- many of the shooters use mass violence acts to commit suicide.
• Rep. Capriglione- what do you all see in terms of stress, anxiety and depression in the community? The Stop the Bleed campaign and drills at schools could be causing anxiety.
  • Dr. Tyroch- the Stop the Bleed campaign was enacted in response to the preventable deaths at Sandy Hook.
    • In El Paso, we have done over 4,000 trainings. Every hospital will have Stop the Bleed kits.
    • We must focus on the aftereffects because people still need support.  
  • Dr. Penn- There are certain children who are more temperamentally vulnerable who may be more at risk.
    • We need to look at the evidence supporting intervention to see if these drills do more harm than good.
  • Dr.  Louden- many school shooters are, or have been, a student at that school.
    • In addition to increasing anxiety, these drills are training the future perpetrator what is going to happen in the event.
• Rep. Landgraf- not all those with mental deficiencies are violent. There seems to be a confluence of belief and behaviors that go along with it. What role do mental health deficiencies play in these episodes of violence?
  • Dr. Louden- mental issues are not a strong predictor of any kind of violence.
    • The only place we see mental illness playing a role is acts of public violence.
    • These public mass shootings are only a small subset of mass violence.
    • We look for symptoms such as depression, substance abuse and paranoia.
  • Dr. Tyroch- the Aurora shooter was working on a doctorate and showed signs of planning an event.
    • Loners are hard to identify, but are the ones that need intervention.
• Rep. Landgraf- do legislators need to specify specific disorders?
  • Dr. Louden- it could be helpful if the community got more general education about mental illness and how to distinguish it from mental distress.
    • If we start using specific terms, we risk creating a stigma around that mental disorder.
• Rep. Landgraf- is there anything we can do at the state level to help those who are prescribed psychotropic drugs to create a better delivery system to decrease non-compliance of the patient?
  • Dr. Penn- for more severe mental illnesses there are injectable medications that work, but they have serious side effects.
    • 50-60% of patients stop their medications even when they are stable. Access and continuity of care are important.
    • We need emergency services like an outpatient program.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- we do not want to scare the children, but prepare them. I am looking to start a firearm prevention month. Is there are research we can use that addresses messaging?
  • Dr. Tyroch- Stop the Bleed is so simple and essential to all traumatic events, but I have not seen the studies you speak about.
  • Dr. Penn- I have not seen any, but TMA or TSPP could certainly get you some. Making it in terms that kids will understand is important and they need to be sensitive to bilingual children or those with learning disabilities.
• Rep. Darby- Yesterday the New Mexico governor talked about legislation that would create a procedure where extreme risk behaviors could be reported and followed through on. What kinds of behaviors are indicators of harm to self or others?
  • Dr. Louden- it is hard to do research on these issues, but if the individual mentions that they have an intention of violence.
    • We need to look at situations where there is conflict in the home and have a mechanism for the victims to call someone to have intervention.
    • When someone acts differently than they normally do.
  • Dr. Penn- all groups are ready to help identify these behaviors.
    • The challenging cases are when someone posts something cryptic on the internet.
  • David Chayer, Center Against Sexual and Family Violence (has not spoken in the video up to this point). Once we have identified the behaviors, we need to have the information shared across multiple channels.
• Rep. Darby- the issue is, at what point can we deprive someone of their constitutional rights?
• Rep. Moody- there is a broad consensus that we need to look at the rules we have on the books and enforce them correctly. Today we have a protective order system for domestic violence, stalking, sexual assault and human trafficking. We should add terroristic threat to that system.
  • Enforcement is not happening for those who have a protective order on the books.f

Panel 2

Dee Margo, Mayor of El Paso

• Gave an account about what happened on August 3^rd in El Paso and how the community came together. The first responders were well trained. Every law enforcement organization responded on that day.
• After the Southerland shooting, you passed legislation for $5.1 million for support. A majority went towards the county for prosecution. Even though the city spent $1.7 million on overtime for first responders, they only received $1 million. The city has not been reimbursed and that is something legislators should consider.
• I think that it will take three years to get through this.
• The office of emergency management has set up a resiliency center and Elpasostrong.com has been created as a resource.
• For red flag laws, we need a good Samaritan protection so it cannot be used as a weapon and so people will not be penalized for an honest concern.
• This mass shooting will not define us.

Jamie Esparza, District Attorney 34^th Judicial District

• I think this mass shooting will define us and we will never forget.
• I am the past chair of the Texas Council on Family Violence.
• Rep. Moody’s HB 3191 addressed the issue of enforcing current laws came out of the TCFV.
• Gives a personal account of the day the shooting occurred.
• The state of Texas is seeking the death penalty in the case.
• HB 3191 is the number one thing on my list.
• It is important that the victims were asked first how they felt about what should be done. You need to remember the victims and the El Paso community when you write legislation.
• Before this incident, El Paso was one of the safest regions in the country.
• HB 3191 says that each county was going to have protocols on how to retrieve weapons for those under protective orders. Currently, there is no smart way to take a weapon from a person recently convicted.
• Over 50% of the mass shooters had some domestic violence history in their past. A good indicator for future violence would be if they have committed domestic violence in the past.
• There has been a concern about false reports, but they are extremely rare.
• As a society, we need to open the door to victims to talk to us about the violence that occurred.
• HB 3191 says if you are convicted and under a protective order, there should be an orderly way to confiscate and return the weapon. The county would decide.

Selina Saenz, Protective Order Unit of the El Paso County Attorney’s Office

• Gives a background on how many protective orders/cases they receive per year.
• The presence of a firearm in the home increases the risk of fatal intimate partner violence.
• The TCFV released a report that 211 Texans were killed by their intimate partners and 59% of them were shot and killed by a firearm.
• In 2018, 5 El Paso citizens were shot and killed by a firearm.
• Legally removing firearms from adjudicated perpetrators of family violence improves safety for the entire community. Studies are showing a link between domestic violence and perpetration of mass violence.
• 14 of the 22 mass shootings in Texas since 2009 have involved the shooting of a family member or intimate partner. Nine of these shooters had a history of committing family violence.
• HB 3191 needs to be passed. Counties need the flexibility to create local protocols.
  • The bill also provides courts with expressive authority to order firearm surrender across the spectrum of family violence cases.
• The process of getting a protective order and returning of the firearm is described at length.
  • When we developed these policies, we were mindful of due process rights.
  • Protective orders are usually for two years and in more serious cases they can last for that person’s lifetime.
  • Since August the 5^th, there have been 15 orders to surrender and 14 firearms have been turned in.
• Provides a career history and speaks on the long-term trauma associated with gun violence.
• We need to develop funding for law enforcement agencies for storage of the surrendered guns.

Questions for Panel 2

• Rep. Gonzalez- do you have to give law enforcement the gun? What if they just hide it?
  • Saenz- they must physically take the gun to the sheriff’s office. We do not have the ability to go and take the firearm. However, if they do not surrender their weapon, there are enforcement mechanisms.
    • The court can issue a warrant for arrest.
    • One of the failings of many gun surrender programs is that no one checks that the person is turning in their weapon.
    • In our process, we have an accountability infrastructure.
• Rep. Gonzalez- Mr. Esparza, you mentioned that it is difficult to institutionalize the infrastructure necessary for protective orders. Can you help us understand what resources or systems of support that we need?
  • Esparza- issues have to do with storage of the weapon. Questions like where you store the weapon and how do you return it in the condition that it was given are the more pressing ones.
    • Some jurisdictions are going to require funding to help move that along.
    • First, counties need to get a task force to create parameters to retrieve weapons in an orderly way.
• Rep. Ortega- Ms. Saenz, it sounds like the protocol you are doing is working. Are other communities doing the same?
  • Saenz- Dallas county has a protocol in place. I have seen orders to surrender in Fort Bend county, but I am unsure what the protocols in place are.
• Rep. Ortega- it seems that policy should mandate follow-ups.
  • Saenz- there needs to be accountability for the person who is ordered to surrender a firearm. For El Paso county, we are the ones following up and the court is supporting us.
  • Esparza- it is going to take effort from the state to mandate county protocols.
• Rep. Fierro- is there a storage fee when someone turns in a weapon?
  • Saenz- no, but Commander Flores may want to consider that as an option.  
• Rep. Fierro- have any of the surrendered firearms been returned yet?
  • Saenz- no.
• Rep. Blanco- Ms. Saenz, tell us about the status of the El Paso county gun storage program. Is the El Paso County Sheriff’s office the only entity who participates in the safe storage program?
  • Saenz- The sheriff’s office is the only entity who stores firearms. The police department may be an option in the future. For the status of the storage program, Commander Flores would be better suited to answer that question.
• Rep. Blanco- are there communities that have model programs that we should be looking into?
  • Saenz- Dallas does and I can provide a report that compares the Dallas program to others in the country.
• Rep. Blanco- is the state doing enough for counties for these storage programs?
  • Saenz- many programs are not in place yet, so I cannot answer that. If legislation like HB 3191 is passed, then the state is going to have to provide funding for law enforcement agencies.
• Rep. Darby- we have had trouble obtaining background check form 4473. We are looking at how the state can prosecute those who lie on those forms. Do you have thoughts on that?
  • Esparza- it requires someone to put the case together. If it becomes a priority to DPS or other agencies, then we would see more prosecutions.
  • Rep. Darby- the issue is those forms are being held by the dealer and we have no access to them.
  • Esparza- I would have to look at the penal code because I think it is a federal issue.
  • Rep. Geren- it is currently a federal law, but we need to make changes in state law so we can prosecute these crimes.
• Rep. Darby- in protective order cases law enforcement officers and the perpetrator have been injured or killed upon seizure of the weapon. Have you heard of cases like that?
  • Saenz- yes. That is the reason our protocols state it is the respondent’s duty to surrender their weapon to us.
  • Rep. Darby- do you think they are being honest upon disclosing ownership of a weapon?
  • Saenz- we ask them under oath, but we have no way of verifying. If there is enough evidence, the court can issue a surrender of firearms. However, if they maintain innocence we are at a standstill.
• Esparza- regarding the previous question, penal code currently states that lying on a federal form is not a state violation.
• Margo- discusses crisis intervention teams that attempt to deescalate the situation. Rep. Price’s bill has provided grant funds to it. The cost is going up and since SB 2 we are going to need more funding help.

Panel 3

David Burton, Chief of Police City of Socorro

• Gives a background on career including active shooter response programs.
• Even with the fusion centers sharing information timely, when a shooter event occurs the police department is the last to know.
• For the police department, an actual event must occur for them to react. Only during the investigation phase do we piece together the information.
  • The data collected is initially the hands of someone who is not associated with law enforcement professionals.
  • A preventative response is required to help stop these acts of violence.
• The public needs to be educated about things they see on the internet or in public that they should report to the police.
• Law enforcement needs to create procedure operations for when such information is received. At least a home visit should be required.
  • Issues of confidentiality need to be kept in mind.
• We need to focus on community information sharing and the repository systems currently exist.
  • Or, we may need to create these systems. Teams should be created that include law enforcement, schools, social services, etc.
  • Thus, partnered visitations on an individual home could be conducted with each agency acting in their own capacity.
    • Gives an example of law enforcement removing weapons while mental health professionals conduct evaluations.
  • Groups like this already exist and the process is effective.

Robert Flores, EP County Sheriff

• The El Paso police department was excellent in their response time on the day of the shooting.
• We recognize that not all evil in society comes from people with mental illness.
• Information sharing among different jurisdictions is critical for law enforcement.
• We heavily rely on fusion centers for their data and officer awareness plans in order to be proactive.
• The information pertaining to individuals who have failed background checks should be given to law enforcement as well.
• The HIPAA and privacy issues will need to be worked through by the legislature.
• Social media grievances are currently monitored and we follow-up in person to attempt to prevent potential tragedies.
• Public reporting on suspicious behavior is key to preventing mass violence crimes.
• The Health and Safety Code currently allows us to seize weapons under certain circumstances.

Jeoff Williams, Texas DPS

• Describes the shooting that occurred on December 29^th at the West Freeway Church of Christ.
• This case, along with others, should serve as a reminder that training should no longer be to sit and wait for SWAT to arrive.
  • Since Columbine, training has shifted to civilian and immediate response. The ALERT program evolved into the national model of response.
  • The CRASE program focuses on civilian response and was created after studying data from hundreds of shootings.
• Policy decisions are made from complete data. Anecdotal stories on social media should not be treated as hard data.
• Since 2000 there has been an upwards trend in occurrences of shootings. Today, the five-year average is one every sixteen days. A majority of these occur in a business or an outdoor public setting, then schools and less than 20 occurred in a house of worship.
• Since 2013 there has been in increase in the use of edge weapons and since 2007 there has been an increase in vehicle-born attacks.
• 54% of these attacks were committed by someone who had no personal tie to the location.
• 20% of the attackers were co-workers and 15% of the attackers were students.
• The national average of duration is 7 minutes. Law enforcement response is 3 mins.
• 50% of the attacks are over by the time law enforcement arrived. 3% of the time a firearm was used to stop an attacker.
• The police stop the shooter 35% of the time and 13% of the time an officer is shot.
• A solo attacker is responsible for 98.7% of these attacks and when there are two attackers they are operating as a team. A second suspect is rare.
  • There is a transition from responding to preemptively stopping civilian casualties.
  • There is a need to for fire and EMS to train together. TxDPS has partnered with the ALERT program and now have created the AIR program.
  • Training includes in-field medical components.
• When civilians do something, fewer get hurt and fewer die. The attack also goes down to one minute. There is a reduction in the duration of time from 7 minutes to 5 minutes.
• Thanks to the funding from the legislature, they can train more to save more lives.

Steve McCraw, Texas Department of Public Safety

• Will provide an update on the eight directives from the governor’s office.
• Can also provide a Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment and Mass Threat Assessment.
  • From both assessments, there is no single profile of a mass attacker.
• We need civilian input and then a follow-up from law enforcement.
• White, racially motivated violence is the most active domestic terrorism occurrence in the United States. Copy-cat attacks are another troubling trend.
• Fusion centers help figure out what behaviors these perpetrators share.
  • In order to be proactive, threats to life need to be taken seriously. Law enforcement, school administrators and more need to know this information.
  • Williams provided an example of civilians reporting suspicious behaviors, but not alerting law enforcement. Once law enforcement was involved, they were able to prevent a possible shooting attack.
• There are questions about how to analyze the immense amount of data out there.
• Federal and state laws have not kept up with technology. That expertise comes from social media companies who could create an algorithm to capture suspicious behavior.
  • There are privacy concerns and we have not clearly defined what public information is concerning social media.

Questions for Panel 3

• Rep. Blanco- for Williams or McCraw, there has been testimony that states social media companies have not been cooperative with DPS. Has there been an improvement in communications between DPS and these companies?
  • McCraw- we do not see the type of cooperation we want, and our focus is safety and we want them to help us develop those indicators. We are optimistic that they will work with us in the future.
• Rep. Capriglione- can you tell us what happens when someone calls and reports that they suspect someone has a gun with intent to harm?
  • Burton- if you call 911, you get a police response. The officer will be there to determine it is a criminal matter or if the individual needs medical services.
    • Right now, these two distinct roads are not shared by the other. There is no follow up between the two.  
  • Rep. Capriglione- so right now where does that information go?
    • Burton- it stays within our police department, and if they go to the courts or hospital that info stays with them. If we created multi-disciplinary groups, that information would be spread to people from many of these areas.
• Rep. Gonzalez- Flores, what is your role in protective orders? What do you feel you need in terms of resources?
  • Flores- we have plenty of space to store the guns as of right now. The sheriff’s office is the only place that is taking the weapons until that order is vacated.
    • If this system becomes sate-wide, then we would need an outside storage area.
• Rep. Gonzalez- what happens to the firearms that have not been claimed?
  • Flores- if it is not picked up, then it will be disposed of according to law.
• Rep. Gonzalez- protective orders are for two years and then 60 days or them to pick up the weapon?
  • Flores- correct and we will work with them if they are in communication with us, but everything is done according to law.
• Rep. Moody- if a protective order is uploaded into TLETS, would an officer at a traffic stop would be able to see that information?
  • McCraw- correct.
  • Rep. Moody- does that give the law enforcement official the authority to search the vehicle for weapons?
  • McCraw- it would be one part of probable cause, but not in of itself a cause to search.
• Rep. Moody- how long did the governor direct you to get that information uploaded into the system?
  • Skylor Hearn, DPS­– the directive you are referencing is convictions. The order says seven days, but it is going to take 37 days. By next year, we want to get it down to 35 days.
• Rep. Moody- we need to enforce the laws we have on the books to prevent these tragedies.
• Rep. Darby- Williams, you provided statistics that showed citizen interference diminishing time and effects of occurrence. What measures can we take that would encourage trained citizen involvement that would help response?
  • Williams- it is dangerous to assume that giving a gun to someone is the solution. The respondent needs to be trained and there are a variety of trainings we use.
  • There are even online courses that people can take that include best practices.
• Rep. Geren- the man who took the shooter out at the West Freeway Church of Christ said he had to wait to shoot right?
  • Williams- yes, he had training for that so he would not shoot innocent bystanders.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- Although I am not a gun owner, I am not against guns. Along with training of civilians, there needs to be training of law enforcement because I am concerned about racial profiling on the officer’s part in response to civilian intervention.

Panel 4

Amy Swearer, Heritage Foundation

• Common characteristics among these attackers have provided a profile for us to follow.
• The first characteristic is that they often tell people about their plans.
  • This was a defining characteristic of school shootings.
  • Successful interventions have taken advantage of this leakage of information. We need to empower the public to report dangerous intent.
    • Utah has created an app to crowdsource this kind of information.
• The second common characteristic of shooters is untreated serious mental illness/instability.
  • A large majority of those with mental illness will never become a danger to themselves or others.
  • We need to adopt a mental-health-centered approach to gun related violence to intercept those who could be a possible shooter.
  • This mental health approach would also help the public by possibly preventing statistically larger gun related crimes like suicide.
• The third common characteristic of shooters is that very few of them have a record that would disqualify them from legally owning a firearm.
  • This is despite the fact they exhibit signs of them being a danger to self or others.
  • In many of these instances, current law would never have prevented these tragedies.
  • Many states have looked at red flag laws. These have been controversial, but we need to preventatively stop those who plan to abuse the second amendment to hurt others.
• We need to focus specifically on dangerous individuals and not go after lawful gun owners.
  • Because these laws limit fundamental rights, we need to write them to protect from abuse. It should not be the norm for us to take guns first and ask questions later.
  • We need to define dangerous narrowly and based on objective criteria.
  • There need to be clear avenues for the restoration of rights.
  • Law should be integrated with exiting mental health and addiction structures in order to get people back to a law-abiding life.
• Notes examples where current law was not upheld that may have prevented mass shootings.
  • In Southerland Springs, the military neglected to forward records through the NICS system to the FBI.
  • In Texas law, there is no criminal law in statute for trying to purchase a firearm as a prohibited individual.
  • We need to bridge the information gap between what the public reports on and what the police follow-up on.
  • We need to take illegal possession of firearms seriously; especially dangerous people.
• We need to remember that we are on the same team.

Scott Calderwood, El Paso 911 District

• Describes the chaotic and extremely high call volume 911 response during the El Paso shooting.
• El Paso’s public safety entities all use the same phone systems (computer dispatch systems). This was critical during the incident.
• All 911 systems in Texas need to have more interoperable systems.
• In El Paso, the dispatch center houses the emergency operation center and the fusion center.
  • This is something we should share as we saw it work effectively.
• Three locations were reported as the location of the shooting. We had to give a full response to all.
• There is next generation 911 technology that could help us eradicate this issue by creating maps that depict where the calls are coming from, but it is costly.
  • This will be an issue for smaller jurisdictions.
  • You will have to address funding to allow everyone to have access to that technology.
• We are looking at what we can do at the dispatcher level for suspicious activity reporting.

Lee Spiller, Citizens Commission on Human Rights

• This is not a gun issue; it is a rights issue.
• We get uncomfortable when it comes to predicting danger, but it works when vigilant people speak up.
• We are not good at predicting violence. There needs to be a rights component to do this.
• Goes through the cases where people were held against their will in the mental health area.
  • Speedy due process needs to occur.
• There are issues with labeling someone mentally unfit to stand trial.
  • Sometimes the mental health system does not handle these people well.
  • Then you are unable to prosecute under felony possession of a firearm
    • The White Church shooter falls under this category.
• There are more than a few shooters who were under the influence of benzodiazepine drugs during their shootings.
  • Gives specific names of shooters who were both violent and under the influence/used drugs regularly.
• What we need is a taskforce that combine the variety of interests involved in this.
  • We need more studies on the link between drugs and mass violence.
  • We need to examine the gaps between mental health and law enforcement.
    • For example, when an individual is detained in mental health care, they do not have to be read their Miranda rights for approximately two days.
• It is too easy, currently, to accuse those who have mental problems.

Richard Hayes, Self

• A new law that targets and burdens gun owners is not the answer.
• In the Health and Safety Code there are already provisions for the seizure of firearms for dangerous persons suspected of having mental illness in the absence of a criminal law.
• Criminals do not follow the law; gun owners are one of the most law-abiding groups.
• Texas law currently contains many provisions that can be used to prevent and stop destructive behavior. They already protect due process rights.
• Some say the threshold of probable cause is too high and limits the effectiveness of prevention of crime, but I would caution you on applying any lower standard in fear of impeding on rights.
• I recommend that prosecutors, law enforcement and Texans should be educated on §573.

Questions for Panel

• Rep. Capriglione- the assessment teams that two of you mentioned, how private is this information and who has access to it? How do we know if the information is accurate?
  • Spiller- there is a potential for the information to be misused. The closed court system is an issue. There are no open records for us to question if the information is accurate.
  • Swearer- when I say sharing information, I mean if an individual who is clearly prohibited from possessing firearms. Does the person have an active warrant? These are important aspects to know.
    • We want closed mental health records because there is a right to protect privacy. It comes down to identifying patterns of behavior.
• Rep. Gervin-Hawkins- Hayes, you were talking about §573 of the Health and Safety Code. Is this an area we should be reviewing for law enforcement training?
  • Hayes- that would be a good solution since many officers do not know of this code.

David Stout, County of El Paso, Texas

• I am here to ask your assistance concerning how this event is going to affect El Paso county and its taxpayers for the foreseeable future.
• El Paso is a tax-poor community that only leverages about $4 million for every penny assessed.
• We have spent hundreds of thousands on emergency services, overtime, travel and housing the perpetrator in our jail. El Paso county and taxpayers are responsible for the trial.
• The trial will not be held here, so that will be costly.
  • Council of judges have estimated their cost will be $1.5 million.
    • The DA expects the prosecutorial cost will be in the same range.
  • We will take on the cost of the defense as the accused has been deemed indigent.
  • Costs will include travel for all involved in the case and transportation of evidence.
• Many foundations have raised millions of dollars for our One Fund, but this will not be enough.
  • It will additionally cost hundreds of thousands of county funds to aid victims and their families gain access to those funds.
• The El Paso United Family Resiliency Center will be hosted in a county-owned facility.
  • This center will be offering services to the community as a whole and is predicted to cost $5 to $6 million.
• We will continue to apply for grants, but even if we are granted all of them it will not be enough.
  • We want to provide therapy and trauma counseling to the first responders, the police department and the medical examiners.
  • We want to provide the same support to the families of the Mexican Nationals who lost their lives in the incident.
• We ask for financial assistance for these resources in order to not raise our taxes.
• Rep. Gonzalez- how have you been able to fund things so far?
  • This budget cycle we set aside $500,000 knowing the trial will start at the end of this fiscal year. The trial will last for several years and end up costing $6 to $8 million.
  • The revenue cap that will be applied to counties in the next fiscal year is a worry.
    • Rep. Darby- to be clear, it is not a cap; it is a threshold for taxpayer’s approval revenue increase.