On February 10 The Texas Tribune held a conversation with the Commissioner of Higher Education Harrison Keller. The moderator was Evan Smith.

This report is intended to give you an overview and highlight of the discussions on the various topics the committee took up. It is not a verbatim transcript of the hearing, but is based upon what was audible or understandable to the observer and the desire to get details out as quickly as possible with few errors or omissions.

Evan Smith and Commissioner Keller

  • Smith – why leave your job with UT?
    • Would like to see how the higher education system will change; a once in a career opportunity Governor Abbott and other legislative leaders have stated next session will focus on higher education
  • Smith – were you directed by the board or did you direct the board in terms of setting goals?
    • The state has general goals like 60×30, but we have talked about where the state should be
  • Smith – can you be specific?
    • Agency is making progress on most of their 60×30 goals but there are exceptions like declining college enrollment rates from secondary to post-secondary
    • Seen improvement in educational attainment but it is not enough to get 60% of students to just any post-secondary education
    • Need to focus on credentials of value
    • Need to focus on 1 in 5 Texans 25 and older who will have some college but will not obtain a degree
    • Smith – so that would be an additional goal outside of 60×30?
    • Yes
  • Smith – ask him to grade higher education in Texas
    • B plus; some areas are good, but given the size of Texas’ economy, more than three universities should be in the top 200 in the world
  • Smith – maybe the top 200 is not a good enough goal?
    • Governor Abbott was right – multiple Texas universities should be among the top 10 public research universities nationwide
  • Smith – how are you doing on that goal right now?
    • Making progress, like the work being done at the University of Houston
    • Need to upgrade infrastructure and make investments in student and staff talent
  • Smith – as a data guy, how do you measure success and assess how things are working?
    • It is a dynamic collaboration that provides a sense of what a student’s pathway would look like from institution to institution; this goes against the current system
  • Smith – what you are saying is that you are tying funding to outcomes?
    • Need to align how we fund and hold institutions accountable; the goal is not just degrees
    • Need to look at workforce outcomes and be aware of those with first credentials moving on to get more specialization
  • Smith – it sounds like you are saying higher education needs to be more fluid – which it has not been, right?
    • That is the reputation of higher education, but the best faculty are constantly innovating
    • Issues of inflexibility are in administration, support structures and policy
    • How institutions are funded and held accountable currently not aligned to the outcomes we want to see
  • Smith – asked about alignment of Texas legislature with higher education goals and needs
    • The Governor and legislative leadership are attentive to that issue
  • Smith – 60×30 began in 2015; do you support this plan like the last commissioner did?
    • Yes, but need to define what the 60% covers and what credentials will be important
    • Need to include research and development in as a component of the plan
    • Smith – you may lead the board into adding those components
    • Yes
  • Smith – let us have a status report on the four main 60×30 components; the first is to have 60% of Texas aged 25-34 to have a certificate or degree; based on last report to the legislature, you are at 43.5% – asked if it is on track?
    • Well, no
  • Smith – but the report says, based on where you are, you are going to make it
    • At this rate with the incremental progress we are making, we are not going reach that goal
  • Smith – what needs to happen?
    • Since the rate has slowed down, we need to accelerate the progress we are making
  • Smith – the completion goal states 550,000 students in 2030 will have completed a certificate or degree from an institution of higher education
  • Smith – Legislature’s report indicates the increase for year over year is 2% – off track; groups with lowest completion rates: Hispanic, African Americans, males and poor Texans; is completion a measure of success?
    • We are off track, but we need to raise the bar and discuss which credentials are valuable
  • Smith – should we take these numbers as concerning?
    • Yes, but I am more interested in the credential production than graduation rates
    • Metric can be misleading; as many as 2/3 of students can be left out of graduation rates due to part-time status
  • Smith – third goal states students who have completed a higher education program will have identifiable marketable skills – the legislature says not on track
    • Has a differing opinion; interested in identifying specific marketable skills
    • This is one way we could use our data to determine the variants around earnings
    • Curriculum feedback would be another tool
  • Smith – it seems like you need to do away with this plan?
    • Need to re-frame our conversations, leverage the data we have and create institutional partnerships
  • Smith – are you on track to cap undergraduate student loan debt to 60% of first year wages for graduates – no more than half of graduates will have student loan debt by 2030?
    • Numbers are stable but we are not β€œall good” – we are worried about three populations
    • Those who do not have access to basic needs
    • Middle class students who carry a disproportionate burden of student loan debt
    • Older students with some college and no degree who need to get a certificate or degree
  • Smith – what about the professionals who aligned their policies to the 60×30 plan?
    • Acknowledges the work; will reposition the coordinating board from a regulatory posture to more of a resource and a thought partner; need to make education workforce data useful and accessible to institutions
  • Smith – will the board no longer implement regulations?
    • Wants a superlative education system for Texas on par with the economy; not done by small changes; we need to encourage innovation
    • Discusses current line by line reviews of core curriculums; instead we should be ensuring transferability of courses and quality control
  • Smith – you are for local control as it relates to higher education?
    • Yes
    • Smith – does the governor know that?
    • Yes
  • Smith – that is a big change – each institution will have more power to make decisions rather than the coordinating board playing a leadership role
    • Different leadership style; need to focus on being more transparent with student pathways and employability while supporting local innovation
  • Smith – so, they are the ones who are going to drive change?
    • Yes, change will be through the partnership with institutions
  • Smith – everyone on the coordinating board all agrees with this?
    • Yes; wants to look at things from a more strategic view
  • Smith – the 2007 8th grade cohort has 23% completion; is that in line with Texas’ goals?Β 
    • No, but the system is engineered for the results it gets
  • Smith – explain
    • Education is based on agrarian calendars and age-based; system is not set up to be responsive to individual needs of students; regulation and funding are based on this system
  • Smith – what about higher education and their involvement in low completion rates?
    • Not going to solve these issues solely through public education reform
    • Need to focus on higher education partnerships that improve college and career advising
    • Mentions a need to ensure dual enrollment curriculum is aligned to their next institution
  • Smith – does not answer my question; boys 20% and poor 15% chance of completion; what is causing those number to be so low? What can higher education do?
    • Some of these estimates focus on first time, full-time students – Β 
  • Smith – these are your numbers
    • Yes, but we need to have sensitivity to variations like non-traditional students
    • Currently not helping students plan those pathways in middle schools or high schools; need stronger partnerships and better use of our data
  • Smith – are you saying we need to do more from an advising standpoint in public education?
    • SB 25 requires higher education institutions to create clear pathways, but many have not
  • Smith – you said institutions should run themselves, but now you are saying something the coordination board would direct institutions to have a sequence of courses to enable better completion rates.
    • SB 25 sets a requirement for all higher education institutions to have those recommended sequence of courses
    • Need to provide info back to institutions so they can track student progress
    • There has not been attention to decisions within institutions
  • Smith – 50% of enrolled students are in community colleges do you handle them differently than 4-years?
    • They are different in terms of broadening access, providing high school programs, and offer workforce education; need to do a better job at including the students who get left out of stats
  • Smith – concerning access and automatic admit – are there enough spots do we need more?
    • Have a shortage of premier higher education spots
    • Transition from high school for college is most disrupting in education policy
    • Need to identify these high potential students earlier; as out of state colleges are recruiting Texas students
  • Smith – is that because we do not have competitive products or not have enough?
    • Other institutions are recruiting before we are
  • Smith – automatic admits were supposed to be a solution to the problem of access, right?
    • It has done a good job in changing the demographics of higher education institution, but the top 8-10% is not a good demographic representation of Texas
  • Smith – it has increased Hispanic population, decreased Anglo, but would you want the legislature to tweak this rule?
    • It is important for increasing access; but they should think about balancing and β€œhow much they are going to weight that one indicator,” but they should not wipe it out entirely
  • Smith – there is a conversation that college is not for everyone; do you embrace that?
    • The data is clear that more education is essential for most students; there is a drop in public confidence in higher education
  • Smith– like HB 3 worked on funding for public education, why are we not talking about higher education funding?
    • Higher education has not been given the same amount of attention
  • Smith – is there not enough funding?
    • If we want to be competitive as a state, we need to invest in higher education infrastructure
  • Smith – do we need an HB 3 for higher education?
    • I have heard from leaders that higher education will be focused on next session
  • Smith – healthcare thinks they will get attention next session; there is not enough money in the budget for everyone to get what they want
    • Wants a long-sustained commitment rather than a one-session focus
  • Smith – tuition makes up a large portion of higher education funding, larger than in the past
    • Tuition is not the long-term solution for funding
    • We need to set the stage for institutions to get more private capital and federal support

Audience Questions to Keller

  • Q: I would like to understand how you gave a B plus to higher education
    • Texas has some institutions that are the best in the world and where we have innovation, but not at a large enough scale and policy can be against us
    • Smith – like HB 3 redefined how districts are rated, should we be giving A thorough F ratings for higher education institutions?
    • Already have a well-developed way of grading institutions
  • Q: When grading by outcomes, do we change the philosophy of the institution?
    • There is a lot of variation by program, but some of the most important programs are internships that are integrated that are nationwide and international
      • Also is a priority for the president
  • Q: Is there an awareness that there is no unifying principle for different majors in a university?
    • These universities can show pathways regardless of your major, students need a good sense of what they get can in the job market and not doing a great job at laying those out