House Select Committee on Educational Opportunity and Enrichment – July 12, 2023

The House Select Committee on Educational Opportunity and Enrichment met for a second day on July 12, 2023. The notice of the hearing can be found here. The archive of the hearing can be found here.

This report is intended to give you an overview and highlight the various topics taken up. It is not a verbatim transcript of the discussions but is based upon what was audible or understandable to the observer and the desire to get details out as quickly as possible with few errors or omissions.

Panel 1

Benny Soileau—Superintendent of Huffman ISD, representing Texas Association of Midsize Schools

• Encourages committee to address funding gaps
• Cost of education has become increasingly difficult
• Diseconomies of scale make it harder for midsize schools to meet educational demands
• To improve public school outcomes we must invest in current and future educators
• Provide districts with increased funding to hire and retain teachers
• We must modernize assessment and accountability measures
• Failings of STAAR and accountability need reform
• Eliminate non-federally required state assessments
• Use state and local assessment data as diagnostic tools instead of standardized testing
• Empower communities to design local assessments using innovative methods
• Accountability requirements pose unreasonable burden on midsize schools
• Texas ranks in top 10 economies in the world and lowest 10 states in per student funding

 

Randy Willis—Executive Director, Texas Association of Rural Schools

• Provided notebook with written testimony, recommendations and supporting documents
• Supports increase of Basic Allotment (BA) by $1000
• Local governance is important, our local elected school boards understand our needs better than you do
• Grant programs are harder for small schools to use
• Charter schools receive 7% of funding and hold 19% of students (Willis later corrected this to be 7% of students and 19% of funding)
• Resolution 4: We are about to fall off a financial cliff if we don’t address these issues
• Against school vouchers, which will siphon money away from public schools
• We support the small school adjusted allotment when it comes to school vouchers
• We should look at national average for starting teacher pay: $42k, that is what we should start teachers at in Texas
• Texas legislature needs to change education code to allow our teachers to teach better
• There is a simpler way to address accountability systems
• There is 75 page booklet that holds 9 suggestions, we have only acted on 1
• Take a look at the next generation commission and put legislation in effect to support it

 

Jason Marshall—Texas Association of Community Schools

• I am here to appeal to you and do some things for Texas teachers
• The number one factor in child’s learning is the quality of teacher
• We need to address the teacher shortage
• Teacher compensation needs a significant increase
• Schools need increase in Basic Allotment (BA)
• We should allow retired teachers to come back into the classroom without paying a surcharge
• We should attract new teachers through incentives and residencies
• Public Appreciation of teachers—Texans need to reverse 20 plus years of attacks on the education system and teachers by the public
• Most teachers complain about the stress and late nights and lack of time spent with their families
• Teachers will continue to teach if they feel appreciated and valued
• How many times have we told teachers positive things?
• If we don’t have a teacher pool to draw from, how will we improve?

 

Justin Terry—Superintendent Forney ISD, Fast Growth Schools Coalition

• I worked on teacher vacancy task force
• My district is one of the fastest growing districts in the state
• We welcomed about 4,000 students last year
• We need accountability reform that takes into account new measures
• I recommend a hold harmless
• Recommend that we lower the high stakes nature of the accountability system
• Reduce testing to follow only minimum federal guidelines
• STAAR should be reduced to 60-80 percent of campus grade
• Consider extracurricular and cocurricular activities
• Support the recommendations made by the teacher vacancy task force
• Increase the BA
• Increase support staff to make teachers job easier
• Change rhetoric that we have for teachers
• Fully fund the fast growth allotment so that we can provide for our students and staff
• We have to open 5 campuses in the next year, we need funding to deal with these complications
• We have the ability to offer more flexibility to students
• We should fund online learning
• The current system limits innovation and options for students
• Districts should be able to partner with local organizations to offer offsite learning opportunities, such as CTE, fine arts, and athletics
• ESA and vouchers are not the answer to choice
• Solidify our communities, not segregate them

 

Q&A

• Buckley- You talked about economies of scale, can you tell me about those struggles?
  • Willis- this is a hard issue to understand. I have 500 students. So I have about $20,000 to work with to do school security. I have to install locks, wire it correctly, and hire officers.
  • Willis- one door could cost 12,000 dollars which is half of our allotment. If we had a large BA, we would be able to apply our funding appropriately. Go to a campus and take a look at it and know that each one is individual
  • Soileau- We are funding a police force and a Marshall program, and there is no assistance in that regard. Doing this has been hard for a district of our size. Many small districts will struggle to pay for an armed guard on their campus.
• Buckley- Is it too hard to validate a local accountability system? To me it sounds interesting. Have any of you tried it our looked into it
  • Willis- We did look into that. It is a lot to get that done. You craft what you want to, then it is sent to Texas Tech to review. It takes a lot of time and staff to develop one of these programs. In the end, it was too many hurdles for a small school district like mine because of lack of staff. We are busy teaching and learning
  • Soileau- We started with community based accountability systems. We partnered with Moak Casey to develop that. We feel like we have a good instrument that our community understands. We are able to track our progress or lack thereof. We put a plan in place to move the needle in the right direction.
• Buckley- If you take this to its ending point, is it truly a system that would supersede a state accountability system?
  • Soileau- I don’t think it would supersede the state system. We appreciate the need of the state, but we also understand the importance local accountability
  • Terry- I think that we have to understand the reason for 2 different accountability systems, we need to improve our communications with parents. We would definitely like to have a localized component
• Buckley- What can the state do to expand the localized accountability system? I am concerned that people will only be interested in the state system because that is how schools will be judged
  • Marshall- 80% of boards of trustees don’t really care about A-F. They want their kids to graduate high school and have skills and character
  • Schools our size care more about the community
• Buckley- when you look at MAP testing, it is a predictor of STAAR. How does it line up?
  • Marshall- It is the closest we have seen, the STAAR test is becoming much more application oriented
  • Marshall- MAP is a better indicator for us
• Buckley- Through your testing, will we still be able to parse out the info that MAPs give us if we developed a through year testing scheme?
  • Terry- I think the through year system would be good. We must have a baseline, mid year, and summative that would be good. We are seeing a good correlation between the two.
  • Willis- a lot of time with STAAR, we don’t get much transparency. Since we use our own system. We understand it better and make sure that we are teaching the standards of the TEKS. 50% of my eighth grade students failed the STAAR science test. The next year they took another test where they placed very highly.
• Buckley- My goal is to have less testing not more. I want the data to be able to be used by multiple parties.
• Gervin-Hawkins- I agree that the teaching profession has been downgraded. I blame it on the unions for turning it from a white collar job to a blue collar job. What is the resolution? Is it the states marketing plan, or is it something teachers should be doing?
  • Soileau- Education used to be a highly respected field. We have politicized the field of education. Through a marketing program we have to change what it means to be a teacher.
  • Terry- I think we look at the post-pandemic era is the origin of the teacher shortage, but we can see these problems go all the way back to 2010. Teachers also face behavioral challenges from kids. We should provide instructional coaching, because teachers who have that instruction usually succeed and stay.
• Gervin-Hawkins- I was part of a program that helps athletes becomes teachers. I think we need to change the narrative of what a teacher can look like and be like. We should market to new populations. I have a question on accountability and portfolios. Maybe other teachers can judge each other’s portfolios. How would we use portfolios without adding work to teachers?
  • Soileau- maybe we could retract some of the mandates we have on teachers so that they have time to do other things. Any additional ask, will hinder our ability to bring in new teachers.
  • Willis- there is a really nice survey on this. 97% of teachers wanted a positive work environment. I believe in portfolio assessments. It allows them to display what they are doing and create their own goals. The first thing, is that we need to revisit the education code to free up teachers time
  • Marshall- On accountability, we understand that we are paid to teach. We are not releasing our responsibility. What I’m hearing from teachers is that the burden is on the teacher more than on the student. I don’t want my student thinking that it is his teacher’s responsibility for him to learn. Student’s believe that if they are not successful there are safety nets which will help them get through.
• Gervin-Hawkins- I wanted to get community-based learning centers in this session. I don’t think schools can do it by themselves. I think you can learn with a stick and sand under a tree. Education needs to be the interest of the community not just teachers. We are spending a lot of money, but we are not performing at the level it should. We need our kids to be able to compete in the world. How do we build this model? We need to reimagine education.
  • Soileau- I think one of the things that needs to be considered is. We need time, money and people. We need to put resources forth to make sure that we are successful. I don’t think we ensure that we have the correct resources
  • Terry- We want to make sure that we have alternative measurements so that accountability is not based solely on STAAR. Experiential assessments can be measured, even in the form of a multiple-choice test. It takes a great community to engage with our kids. Art and extracurriculars should speak to their success
  • Willis- I have a problem with the predictability aspect of STAAR. All we need to know is can a student read at 3^rd grade reading level. They want to stretch the student. All we should learn is: are students on the correct level?
• Does a MAP test do that?
  • Willis- Yes it does. With MAP tests we can actually measure growth. Students start at different levels, we can get students there. But we need baselines and to invest in programs
• Frank- We have somehow transferred the responsibility from children and parents to the school. Have I summarized that correctly? I agree that this is the system we set up. Now it is our responsibility to feed kids. No one is sitting at the family table. Parents need to take ownership.
  • Marshall- I agree with that. The point was to professionalize the standards of education. We just missed the point of who is responsible for learning. If we put the burden on teachers to be responsible for the child applying what they are taught, that system is highly stressed. If we continue to put that stress on teachers, we will need to raise salaries significantly higher, so that they will be willing to take on the stress. We need to find a happy medium because teachers do have a responsibility
• Frank- We need to make efforts to engage parents. If you don’t engage parents, you can only save some kids. If I ask what are you doing to engage parents, the response is we don’t have money for that. A lot of the things we do make parents unwelcome in schools. We could fund $5k more per kid, we will have prettier campuses but the outcomes will be the same.
  • Soileau- I don’t feel that way about Huffman ISD. We collaborate with our parents. I think that in general public schools are good about that.
• Frank- I was thinking more of societal change. I think parents need to make an effort too.
  • Willis- Schools are required to have programs to reach out to parents. Different schools manage this in different ways. I had one parent show up when I had a meeting about failing grades. We really have to change that mindset. Parents have many ways to get involved if they choose to. In our Rural communities, the community does a good job of getting involved
• Ashby- Thank you for your service and what you do for your communities. There seems to be a lot of interest and concern for where we are in supporting our educators. We need to recognize a teacher shortage throughout the state, this is no longer just a rural issue. Retire rehire makes all the sense in the world. We have a system that penalizes districts when they want to implement this. I would like to target youth who would be candidates to be future educators. We need to do a better job of supporting that effort. Regional service centers are extremely important. Would any of you like do address ESC’s.
  • Willis- Service centers provide think tanks and ideas to our smaller schools. Giving service centers support would allow them to be a creative technical provider for us.
• Ashby- The first issue that was brought up to me was HB 4545. I understand the logic behind what we did, but it has created some very burdensome hurdles. What are the challenges you see in implementing 4545?
  • Soileau- The hardest part was getting people out to our locations to supplement our staff, because we didn’t have enough staff. We didn’t feel that providing remote remediation would be as rich. How do we keep teachers engaged and compensated? We can mandate that, but it makes things harder on teachers.
  • Terry- Reading academies are a lot for our teachers and are a very challenging process
• Ashby- This is a significant issue that I hear a lot about.
• Harris- I agree with everything Ashby just said. We should be going after low-hanging fruit like teacher rehire and teacher recruitments. When we write legislation, we intend it to be simple and then a state agency adds a bunch of steps. I don’t want there to be an adversarial nature to our positions. You brought up appraisal studies, can we talk about where Palestine ISD is at?
  • Marshall- We will be outside the confidence interval. We will lose a million to 1.2 million by shifting from local to state appraisal values. We will lose out on teacher pay raises. We also did not get selected for a grant we were previously receiving. We are already having to budget for a 1.2 million dollar loss. We don’t pocket the money when appraisal values go up.
  • Willis- There is a description about what is happening to Alpine ISD in your binder. I would encourage you to look at that. That is just one snapshot, we are looking at some serious issues in the next couple of years.
• Harris- We need to deliver the message to the Senate of how critical this issue is.
• Bell- Do you get the questions and see them for the MAPs results? I don’t think you get them for STAAR
  • Willis- TEA can probably give you the data on that. I use renaissance, we get all the questions and it really helps our teachers guide our students.
• Bell- why can’t TEA do that too?
  • Willis- you get into federal issues there. They are accomplishing different goals. You cannot use MAPs and renaissance under federal law.
• Bell- you have to have that data. That is my point. The purpose of through year testing would be to get you feedback and reduce testing. What would that look like?
  • Willis- We have the Texas success initiatives assessment. We already have a test that requires us to put everyone of our students through a diagnostic test. Looking at an assessment like that would reduce 5 tests to one. But that would create a lot of complexities on a federal level and at the TEA
  • Soileau- when we are talking about diagnostic tests. There are a number of districts that have tested these instruments themselves. We have developed the district learning assessment which is tightly aligned to TEKS. We can develop a lot of data that is useful for us. If we moved to a state system that would be challenging for us to switch. It would inhibit our local discretion
• Bell- If we can’t reduce the high stakes testing and reduce the stress on our kids, we are not doing what our kids need
• Bell- I hear the same things meeting with my superintendents. Teacher rehire surcharge is a big problem. We wonder why we have so much pressure on teachers. STAAR is one of the systems that places pressure on teachers. If we move the cut score that would increase stress on teachers again. We can’t keep moving the goal posts. That sets us up for failure. You are preaching to the choir with what we need to do. Seven years later and only one item has been done. That isn’t because the House hasn’t worked on it. The whole bicameral legislature needs to receive this message. What is the risk to the virtual completion model if there are students leaving early?
  • Terry- It is very much a gamble if a student starts in a virtual setting. If they leave one day before the semester ends, we get no money. If they transition back to in-person school, we receive no back funding. We currently have a child who needs to go into a cosmetology program but cannot because she needs to be fully virtual and we cannot offer a flex setting. Virtual education has potential for us to choose the setting for their children
• Bell- Medically fragile kids may need to be homebound for months at a time or children who need to be a caregivers for older parents. You can’t waffle back and forth. We need to be doing what is in the best interest of kids
  • Marshall- You mentioned something about CCMR earlier. We pay for every students dual credit all the way through their associates degree and up to 2 career tech certifications and we are a TSI testing center. What else can we do for our students? Why would we drop to a B because cut scores change?
  • Willis- I have 17 high school teachers. It is a real challenge to offer robust certification programs. There is a different set of issues in rural Texas. We’re limited in what we can do. We want to work with you on this.
• Hinojosa- I’ve heard a lot about the issue of mobility, can you explain why that’s important?
  • Terry- we have a bunch of people moving into our district coming from different places. It could be that students walk in with gaps because they were learning different TEKS or they were learning different curriculums. Learning recovery doesn’t happen overnight. There are variables that impact our achievement scores and learning that isn’t taken into account
  • Marshall- Our mobility rate is very high. We have mock STAAR tests to prepare our students. Having a certain level of comfortability is necessary to perform. Children with high mobility rates struggle to get comfortable. Those are things that STAAR doesn’t factor.
• Hinojosa- we see this in AISD because affordability is such a big deal. People move around the city a lot. It is hard to catch kids up when they are mobile
  • Soileau- if we don’t meet basic needs of our children when they are moving, it will be hard to keep them in the classroom and educate them like we should
  • Willis- We did discuss taking a subset of kids who have had consistent time at a school in looking at STAAR results
• Hinojosa- I think you misspoke in your opening statement: 7% of students receive 19% of funding
  • Willis- I meant that, thank you
• Talarico- In a lot of ways, local schools are the only pillars left standing in the community. That is why they are being asked to feed kids etc. It feels like taking funding to give to charters scares people because they are so important.
  • Soileau- We do have to take on these responsibilities because we realize that we must meet kids needs before teaching them. We struggle with parent engagement, so we try to reach out to parents. We do take on these tasks. People need to realize that schools are taking on a lot because there is a need. How do we assist schools to allow them to put money where the needs are.
• Talarico- If you are a parent who works multiple jobs, there are less opportunities to be supportive. The education system doesn’t exist in a vacuum and many things conspire to put stress on the education system
  • Soileau- I do think that in many communities, the public school is the last man standing for supporting community. For many people, public schools are a major employer. We need to look at the economic impact as well
  • Terry- Educators are naturally going to serve. We are incredibly good at creating community. During the pandemic, everyone turned their eyes to the school district to serve. I think that as community creators we will remain the core.
• Talarico- we need to bring back local business and hospitals to communities so we do not burden public schools.

Panel 2

Emily Sass—Texas Public Policy Foundation

• Robust system of student transfer allows students to find schools that are suited for their education
• This is a natural avenue to consider
• Public school choice is not as accessible as people would think
• The most prominent reason for transfer is academic, this is an upward opportunity for underserved students
• 4% of students successfully transferred in Texas
• 6% of students attend schools outside their attendance zone in Colorado
• 9% in Florida, significantly higher than in Texas
• Parents consider multiple factors when transferring a student
• STAAR passage is one of the factors for transfer, 60% of students did not pass math STAAR
• Schools are still authorized to charge tuition for students from other districts
• There is no guarantee that students can stay transferred
• There should be an easy and predictable transfer process
• These suggestions had bipartisan support and passed the senate almost unanimously
• One school claimed to not receive tier 2 funding for transfer students, this is false
• District discretion in determining student number is still allowed
• Schools could still prioritize transfers for children of employees

 

Michael Barba—Texas Public Policy Foundation

• Parents are primary educators of children
• State should support parents not replace them
• Parents have rights in public education
• It is not true that parents already have school choice
• The vast majority (75%) of students who apply to magnet schools are denied
• Charter schools are open enrollment, but there are massive waitlists
• Accredited private schools, this number has declined significantly
• Many parents want these options but could not afford them
• The state has appropriated 500 million for the ESA program which would substantially benefit students
• Leads to higher reading and math proficiency
• Florida public education has improved significantly since charter schools
• We expect the number of private options in rural Texas to increase if ESA’s are implemented

 

Robert Enlow—President, Ed Choice

• When Ed Choice was founded, school choice only existed in 2 states
• Criticisms of school choice are the same arguments made 30 years ago, but now we have studies on the effects of school choice
• 84% of studies find there is a positive effect and only 6% have found a negative affect. Nothing has been as well studied as school choice
• Choice does not drain resources from public schools
• In 5 states with most ed choice, funding per student increased in that time period
• 87% of studies found that choice leads to long term benefits
• Since implementing choice, Florida saw massive increases in NAEP scores
• 90% of studies found positive effects on public education scores where school choice happens
• In the end, the bulk of evidence shows that school choice leads to gains in test scores
• When you look at other indicators, the effects of school choice become even more positive
• Frank- Mr. Enlow, your organization does a lot of studies. Are there any common themes for how other states have preformed?
  • Enlow- you have to provide adequate funding. States that have higher voucher and scholarship amounts are more successful. When you have programs with broader eligibility, they are more successful. The program cannot be overly bureaucratic. In Louisiana, some of the best schools didn’t join because the government made it to hard
• Frank- If you have money, you already have choice. I don’t understand why we need to remove income requirements.
  • Enlow- some states are prioritizing. Most of the people moving are students who are unhappy. Even when there is lots of income eligibility, the majority taking advantage are low income
• Buckley- Mr. Enlow, since you have a broad perspective on school choice across the country. I think we hear a lot that this is a discount for rich folks. What are the characteristics of the families who participate in a choice program?
  • Enlow- there are 78 programs now. The vast majority of them serve middle and low income families. The vast majority of kids on vouchers are in urban areas. Significantly more Hispanic families are in the voucher programs. Families want a better academic and safer environment. Even in states that have broad educational choice programs, the vast majority still came from low income backgrounds.
• Buckley- what about accountability? The reality is it’s public money. What level of accountability should we have? What do states typically do?
  • Enlow- The best form of accountability is parents who can vote with their feet. 14 of 17 ESA programs ask students to take a state or national norm reference test. Schools have to report to state how the money is being spent. In Arizona, concern for funding being misspent was 0%. At the same time, unemployment fraud was going up. Families who choose get to communicate with schools better and are more engaged with the community.
• Buckley- What about the requirements to be a provider? Like accreditation?
  • Enlow- I don’t know about Texas specifically, every state is different. Many states will say accredited schools and any schools that the agency approves. The vast majority of schools are accredited
• Buckley- What about reporting on that testing from those norm reference tests? Is there a way to evaluate what we get for those dollars?
  • Enlow- In Indiana, students at voucher schools outperform public school students significantly
• Buckley- What are the requirements that a private school take a kid? Is there a cap on tuition? One of the concerns is that an ESA might not cover full tuition.
  • Enlow- If an ESA doesn’t cover the full tuition, parents cover the rest. Private schools should be able to have their own admissions policies. In Indiana, we haven’t found a single child who hasn’t been able to find a school if they qualify for a voucher program.
• Buckley- what is the impact on racial make up?
  • Enlow- In states with choice programs, there is more integration in private schools than ever before.
• Buckley- what about transportation?
  • Enlow- You could include transportation in ESA
• Ashby- What is the difference between a voucher and an ESA?
  • A voucher is a subsidy for a single use sent directly to a school. An ESA has multiple uses, so they could go to a private school and hire a tutor or take a dual enrollment credit etc.
• Ashby- So vouchers go to school and ESA’s go to a family?
  • Enlow- legally they all go to the family, but ESA’s go to one source
  • Barba- for clarification the money will not go directly to a bank account. It will all be funneled through the program

 

Tiffany Barfield—Yes, Every Kid

• Families and students should be primary decisionmakers
• 79% of parents said they would support school choice in a study
• 15% of nations school children will no longer be bound to the school they are assigned to
• Change district transfer laws to require districts to accept students
• Stop charging tuition fees
• Revise the law to allow grants for any purpose of transfer
• Allow parents to direct education funding
• Many states have strong public school access laws

 

Q&A

• Buckley – asked more about transfers and eligibility
  • Sass – need way to make sure resident students served well, can consider factors like behavior but within limits so district can consider things that would cause disruption for resident students
  • Sass – concern is going beyond this when holding the fact they are struggling in another district against them
• Ashby- Most of my counties have small school districts. I don’t see a significant problem in my district of districts refusing transfers or charging tuition fees?
  • Sass- there are schools where the majority of their students are transfers. In small regions, the institution of tuition is less likely. The concern is to make sure that the admissions process is applied equally. Some kids are eligible for transfer and some aren’t eligible, many of whom are economically disadvantaged
• Hinojosa – would like a list of the studies and who paid for them from Enlow, data he is presenting conflicts with the data I have. I show a drop in performance when choice is implemented.
  • Enlow – Happy to do that
  • Enlow – University of Arkansas study shows a J curve where scores drop initially and then go up. This is what they are finding in Indiana
• Talarico – wants to echo comments from Hinojosa, different data seems to be from different groups. Important to know funding source; points to two sources that show pro-vouchers data supported by pro-voucher groups and there has not been a study on something as large as what is being considered in Texas
• Bell – agrees there needs to be testing for accountability and audits, what is real accountability so what happens if they are not passing the test or there is a financial mismanagement?
  • Enlow – believes in national norm reference testing so schools have option
  • Enlow – different students learn different ways so there is an argument to be made for testing choice
  • Enlow – yes on finances there are clawbacks and can remove vendors if they are not good actors
  • Enlow – charter schools in Arizona going for some time, by the time a state comes in to close one there are a few students left because parents decided and pull children out
• Bell- So if you do a norm test, and the testing shows the kid isn’t doing well, the parent may move them somewhere else?
  • Enlow- Typically
• Bell – if there is parent empowerment, this system could be used in public education for accountability
  • Enlow – Yes
  • Enlow – Agnostic on system, believe in true parent choice and dollar should follow the student
• Bell – all about competition, but there needs to be a level playing field and accountability both ways; do you see correlation of empowering parents and parental engagement
  • Enlow – yes, when empowered they are engaged
  • Barba – San Antonio example, accountability to parents helps all kids, system was improved such as establishing open enrollment, put in merit pay, etc and as a result over 22k more students performed higher
• Bell- What about the administrative costs? What percentage of total money appropriated is typically spent on administrative costs?
  • Barba – Recommend 5% to state administrator and 3% to the organization, not about reducing child’s ESA but to appropriate funding for administrative cost
  • Bell – but if the funding is not enough, then someone has to make up the difference
  • Enlow – each state is different, in Florida it was 3%, he has the data and will get that to them
• Shaheen- We do deal with the transfer problem in my districts. You mentioned schools being maintained by transfers. Are there schools that are significantly dependent on those paying tuition?
  • Sass – was referring to schools bringing in significant number of transfer students and the funding from the state on transfer; was not referring to tuition
• Shaheen- I think you said that in states where the parameters for school choice was broad, the benefits still targeted low income families?
  • Enlow- when we started choice, it was necessarily targeted to low income students, even when it expanded, low income students still made up the majority of benefits
  • Barba- About half of students in charters are in one of the lowest 3 tiers of income, usually more low-income students go to charters.
• Shaheen- What are the implications of choice on the workforce?
  • Barba- I think that is a key point. If we make workforce prep eligible for ESA programs, money could be spent to solve that problem. Florida Students in a Choice Program were 10-20% more likely to earn a higher education degree. We can make progress on our 60 by 30 goals by implementing ESAs.
• Gervin-Hawkins- Were you saying that 27,000 existing students improved at AISD?
  • Barba- there were 27,000 more children in schools rated f and d in 2017 who have moved to A and B schools
  • Gervin-Hawkins – asked if he would consider this example matching what Dutton was working on with HISD
  • Barba – admires Dutton’s courage, many things done right such as focusing on early literacy
• Gervin-Hawkins- What is your response to the complaint that ESA’s siphon off kids and money?
  • Barba- my response is that the schools in that area have gotten better
• Gervin-Hawkins- There is choice, through charters. Why can’t we have more charters?
  • Barba – would like both strong authorization for charters and see ESAs as a promising practice
• Gervin-Hawkins- Private schools set their own graduation requirements, how do we know that they are experiencing the same standards?
  • Barba- we want there to be a report to study academic outcomes. There should be direct transparency. We are not supportive of ESAs that do not support transparency
  • Sass- Since the 1980s private schools have been accredited. Annually, TEA reviews the accreditation process and grants reciprocity between Texas public schools and private schools. TEA recognizes parity.
• Gervin-Hawkins- How do we deal with Private Schools that struggle with IDEA?
  • Barba – recommend shifting to an intensity of services model
  • Barba- Students receiving special ed are entitled to free and appropriate education and child find. There is an option to allow public school districts to identify children and pay them for that through ESAs. We have met with families who have needed to switch to private school, because the school couldn’t meet their needs
• Gervin-Hawkins – a doctors diagnosis or report from ISD may be needed
  • Enlow—Promising practice in Florida, will look into this more and get details back to the committee
  • Enlow – there is a desire for parents to have more options, parents are saying don’t get rid of private schools, state has provided funds to religious entities for years such as Pell grants
  • Enlow – no reason to deny choice based on the institution being a religious one
  • Talarico – blurring of lines between church and state, knows of plenty of times need strings on taxpayer dollars and provides medical care example

 

Panel 3

Donna Hale—Miami ISD

• Facing a serious funding shortage
• Starting pay for teachers is still $11k behind big districts
• They do not have a pipeline for teachers unlike other districts
• For the upcoming school year, they still do not have a math teacher
• It is difficult to even find bus drivers
• Hale will be learning how to drive a bus
• Their student’s mental health needs programs cannot be continued due to lack of funding
• They do not have the workforce or resources to offer many of the industry resources TEA is requiring
• With such a small student population just one bad score can hurt their rating
• By not increasing the basic allotment the legislature is not doing their part
• 94% of their students compete in extracurricular activities that cannot be measured on a test

 

Dr. Bobby Ott—Temple ISD

• Texas is #1 in top destination states
• #1 in economic development
• #1 in exports
• #1 in job creation in fortune 500 companies
• None of these statistics would be possible without education success; they are related
• Hopes that any legislation considers separate funding for public ed and nonpublic ed
• There is going to be an upcoming record number of adopted deficit budgets
• Temple ISD adopted a deficit budget for the first time in 10 years last week
• They are a growing district and had to have a deficit to keep up
• They are opening up a new school and have to order the materials before they get an allotment
• An increase in inflation also caused them to have a deficit
• The HB 3 safety bill is debt that was passed on to the schools
• HB 3 generated 227,000 dollars for temple isd
• They need 8 more armed guards at their campuses to fulfill the requirement
• The commissioner’s safety requirement means they need $1.8m to cover it
• They had to use a deficit to meet the requirement
• Proposes an increase in the basic allotment by no less than $1k for covering the very basics
• Transition year for accountability rating is something that is possible
• They are complaining about the unprecedented approach used to implement the cut scores
• They consider this past school year a transition year
• Temple high school improved across the entire board, but they are going to end up with a lower rating
• Curious why there was not a hold harmless rating this year
• The issue is about how the scores are being applied
• Proposes expanding the traditional definition of good schools as more than just the STAAR test
• Teacher quality, access to programs and quality of extracurriculars are important as well
• A single test metric doesn’t find out how the school is actually developing it’s students
• An unintended consequence of the A-F accountability system is that there is a moderate correlation between family income and school scores
• When students are in elementary schools that is also when they are in school the least amount of time
• Poverty is not an excuse, but it is a very real variable

 

Dr. Craft—Northside ISD

• They have 194 teacher vacancies
• There are 100 special education teacher vacancies
• They have 12 police officer vacancies
• They would need to hire another 75 police officers to be in compliance with HB 3
• They are struggling to give their teachers livable competitive wages
• Costs $10-12k dollars per rehire
• More and more teachers are leaving their profession within the first 5 years
• New teachers are not eligible for full benefits until they reach 65 years of age
• Their teachers ended the year with a 3% pay increase which falls very short of keeping up with inflation
• They are anticipating an upcoming deficit budget
• They are strongly in need of support to continue providing high quality education to students

 

Dr. Michell Smith – Executive Director of Raise Your Hand Texas

• Austin American Statesman says merely throwing money at schools won’t save them
• “This debate is about children and not a system lets give them a chance”
• Houston Chronicle says that Texas schools are severely underfunded
• Dallas Morning News says Texas is still short on certified teachers
• All of those articles and quotes were from 2004 and 2005
• We are still in the bottom 10 states of per student funding
• 4 million Texas students are depending on this
• These problems are important enough to be look at on their own and not as vouchers
• Schools are in need of support due to inflation
• It will take $1,000 dollars per student to reach where we had been in 2019 and that isn’t even the national average
• Opposes any form of voucher that is based on the current A-F system

 

Q&A –

• Ashby – For HB 3 you were saying that you agree with the spirit of it but that they missed the mark in terms of providing the funding for carrying it out?
  • Ott – Yes
• Ashby – In HB 3 they have the ability to hire a campus guard but they also have the flexibility to ensure that there is someone participating in the guardian program?
  • Ott – Yes
• Ashby – So you decided you would put a person on the campus?
  • Ott – Yes, because they would rather have someone trained like a police officer who is identifiable than someone who is through the guardian program
• Bell – If you added additional items to testing indicators what would they be?
  • Craft – There are CT opportunities that could be capitalized on
  • Junior ROTC programs and successful completion of it
  • Schools monitor a lot of variables already that could be good to include
  • If you were to survey school board members they want accountability but also the ability to keep it at a local level
  • Smith – There are multiple states that already use multiple standards so we wouldn’t be reinventing the wheel
  • Ott – Access to enrichment programs, and health services
  • This could be landmark piece of legislation
• Bell – Has gotten significant pushback on parental surveys for local accountability systems; there are a lot of hoops to jump through
• Bell – What would we need to do to reduce the quantity of test and the high stakes nature as well as reducing the amount of time spent testing?
  • Craft – The state assessment system whether it is local or not it is fair to say the A-F rating system will carry the day
  • Not only is the accountability system difficult to explain to parents and adding another layer then it will become more difficult
  • The real advantage in visiting with teachers is that it provides interim checkpoints to see how students are progressing instead of a postmortem assessment
  • Ott – The MAP assessment does have correlations with the STAAR
  • Have to make sure that they will be able to have some kind of correlation
  • They have to be very careful with how interim assessments interact with the accountability system
  • Hale – Tests throughout measuring the progress could help them get more teachers in the classrooms
  • There are many teachers who do not want the pressure of everything riding on one test
• Bell – So it needs to be something to use throughout the year and get real time data with, becoming a summary at the end of the year to look back on
• Bell – It would be a 12-month indicator
  • Craft – The human element is important to factor in
  • Teachers live and breathe off of watching their students grow
  • An assessment system like the one we have now is very difficult and not meaningful for teachers
• Bell – If a child looks at the same test 3 times a year instead of once then it can also relieve some testing stress
• Buckley – Wants their opinion on what they do for literacy in their districts and what they think of the science behind it
  • Hale – Because they have such small classes, they have 1 teacher to 8-10 student classrooms
  • They have a very intensive dyslexia program that takes their therapists 2 years to go through
  • They have gotten all of their certifications but there is not one approach that works for all children, so they have to tailor it for each student
  • Ott – When their teachers went through the reading academy trainings, they were learning that what they were doing was not consistent with reading academy teachings
  • So, it was a great opportunity for them to improve their teaching and their results went up as a result
  • It isn’t really about the front-end trainings for them and more so the real time support and pulling teachers aside and continuously checking in
  • Craft – Coming back from Covid-19 there has been a pretty significant change in Pre-K and Kindergarten enrollment
  • It is really important to make sure that everybody is coming back to the program, and they have yet to see it recover
  • Having the students and parents reengaging in the process is extremely important
• Buckley – The accountability is a system designed to motivate and inform adults, but we do it on the backs of our kids; having a letter grade also makes things really simple to look at
• Buckley – But when you go to smaller schools teaching kids that come from chaos and then ranking them a D causes the individuals working through such struggles to feel offput
  • Smith – People appreciate an A-F rating, but they don’t correlate it with the stress that it is causing their students and teachers
  • Parents want the single letter rating to be telling them more because they acknowledge the lack of information they have about the context
  • Ott – The shock value has become numbing in the past 3-4 years
  • There was a time where realtors and recruiters were coming in but if their rating is low enough, they won’t even get a chance to talk to them
  • People are losing faith in the accountability system
  • For a small period of time, it carries a little bit of weight, but it has started to go away because people in the community know it doesn’t tell their story
  • There are people who don’t send their kids to school during the week of STAAR testing because they don’t believe in it
  • Craft – In many cases the sanctions that accompany a D or an F campus entails a lot of additional tasks
  • They may be placing undue pressure on a campus environment that is already fragile
  • There are teachers already going above and beyond working tirelessly with their students without having the extra burden placed on them
  • The A-F system is highly correlated with poverty levels
  • Hale – They have open enrollment and school choice in the panhandle
  • The parents are most interested in the small class size rather than their A rating
  • The opportunities they can provide to their children are more important to parents
• Buckley – What is your capacity?
  • Hale – We have 206 students and can take more; don’t charge tuition
  • Ott – They don’t charge tuition for transfers
• Buckley – Wonders if anyone has ever looked at how many dollars, they spend chasing the system? How much money is spent on the layers that are not in the classroom?
• Bell – It would be interesting to find out what the purpose is of A-F accountability by asking people in the house and senate and parents about it; we would probably be alarmed at what we find out
• Ashby – He is hearing that it costs more to educate children of poverty; do you think our school finance system adequately represents the real-world situations with children of poverty in the system? Are we providing what you need for these children?
  • Craft – Absolutely not; the resources have never been enough
  • The demographics are shifting quickly, and we are not keeping up
  • Ott – Agrees with craft
  • Also, special programs are not given enough support
  • Smith – People have a culture of shopping with schools where they are looking for the right fit for their kids
  • Every time a student moves to a new campus their likelihood of graduating goes down by 6-7%
  • If there is a system where students are not supported, and parents change their school their chances of graduating continuously go down
• Vandeaver – It stuck out to him that these schools are providing choice to these families, and they are shopping for what they want; it doesn’t need to go unnoticed that they are the ones providing the choice to these families
  • Ott – There are parallels between public and private school choice
  • Transportation and space availability are shared by both public and private
  • The difference would be selective admissions
  • If public schools have space, then they will take you
• Harris – What about the cases where an ISD year over year has a massive fund balance that it carries and chooses to spend that money on things other than teacher pay?
  • Craft – If you really analyze fund balances most school districts are utilizing a 2–3-month expenditure balance
  • It is really important for cash flow purposes
  • There are more school districts that are operating within the 2-3 months than those with exorbitant fund balances
  • The challenge is whether or not it is sustainable
  • If you start eating away at your fund balance year by year, then it is not sustainable
  • Ott – Funding anything that is perpetual out of fund balance is not sustainable
  • They typically use fund balance to float operating costs
  • Carrying excessive amounts of fund balance is a problem in some cases
  • They make sure to never carry too much and currently they are uncomfortably close to not having enough
• Hawkins – Hears about a lot of districts sitting on fund balances; how are they calculated?
  • Ott – The requirement is three months operating
  • It is part of the financial integrity and accountability system
  • The state has you on a disbursement payment plan
  • It is not every month
  • You have to float the expenses until you get paid again
  • It is in the first accountability rating system
  • Craft – It is important to take into account that they sell bonds and staying financially stable influences the bonds
• Frank – When you are taking a transfer from out of district you can accept them or not accept them; there is nothing that says you have to take them?
  • Ott – That is correct
• Hinojosa – It is also true that at different times of the year your fund balance looks a lot higher than other times; so, you may be criticized for a fund balance at a particular time of year instead of the reality of it
  • Craft – The safest analysis is year-end financially audited fund balance
  • Hale – Right now their fund balance looks higher, but they have yet to deal with several problems that are going to cost exorbitant amounts of money
• Bell – When you get a transfer application in do you set that based upon academics or referrals to accept them?
  • Craft – It is mixed; initially the answer to that is no
  • The district holds the ability to reject the transfer if there is disciplinary records or other issues
  • The transfer can be revoked if the student doesn’t hold up their end of the bargain
  • Ott – They mainly look at the safety piece of it
  • Hale – If they have the resources to provide for the student then they try to take them in
  • They believe in a second chance for students especially with the smaller environment giving them more opportunities to look after them
• Chair Buckley – What is your biggest concern about a school choice program in Texas?
  • Craft – The largest concern is the tracking, the logistics, the funding, and the timing is just not appropriate for the state of education in Texas right now
  • There is currently a lot of choice and trying to create this program just isn’t the right time
  • Ott – They are underfunded and the idea of allocating money to a system that would include nonpublic schools while they are underfunded is a bad idea
  • There is a potential revolving door effect where services are promised but required in public schools
  • If an educational therapist walks off of a school site, the services will have to happen even if they are in the summer
  • Not concerned about losing kids but who will really take advantage of the school choice program?
  • The parents still have to figure out transportation, whether or not the tuition goes up, paying extra for extracurriculars
  • Hale – The funding is the biggest concern
  • There is not enough money in the system and then it will be spread out even further
  • Smith – If they are going to put kids in a different environment, we have to pay for the services that they deserve

 

Panel 4

Lonnie Hollingsworth—Texas Classroom Teachers Association

• Increasing the basic allotment is very important
• Provide for a permanent increase in funding for health care
• There needs to be working condition improvements
• Increase teacher autonomy by enacting legislation that limits the extra duties teachers can be given
• Funding from the state to pay teachers to take training
• There are a lot of unfunded mandates
• Incentivize good management by restoring funding for the working condition survey
• Support teachers with student discipline
• Use the school safety allotment to provide behavioral specialists that are needed for every campus
• Eliminate the ability of campuses to eliminate behavioral specialists
• Teacher salaries per pupil have not kept up with the times
• Don’t reinvent the wheel; just increase the basic allotment
• Giving districts an additional hold harmless on top of the basic allotment to allow additional flexible funding
• HB 3 and HB 100 were good but there were not enough teacher compensation components
• It decreased the number of steps from 20 to 10 meaning there would be no incentive to increase pay after step 10
• It went from a monthly salary to an annual salary
• They would change their teachers’ contracts and not pay them for certain amounts of time

 

Vivian Burleson—Self

• We are losing teachers in record numbers because of the lack of compensation that is overshadowing their want to help children
• Precious learning time and opportunities erode away for students while this is happening
• Campuses need regular access to mental health services
• It is not enough to have a classroom teacher manage this alone
• The increasing time commitment that along with the extra duties assigned umbrella
• Teachers have to stay after school on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and even sometimes more than that
• There are lunch duties, clubs, and teacher meetings after hours
• Substituting classes means that students don’t always get the education in programs that they need
• Grading assignments on top of that means that there is not enough time in the day to get it done
• Their work follows them home no matter how much work they put in
• There is a need to shape guidelines around extra duties that teachers are given
• Equitable teacher compensation is extremely important
• When it comes to an increase in teacher compensation, please consider an across the board raise that goes to all professional staff instead of funneling it through the districts
• In this case using district compensation formulas tends to be like a game of telephone where the message gets distorted
• The single most influential factor in a student’s success is the classroom teacher

 

Sonia Martin Velicias—Ector County ISD

• Teaching is a difficult job that is being neglected by the current system
• Securing a job in the oil and gas industry could provide her with 2-3x her current salary
• Ector County ISD has achieved the status of being a district of innovation
• Despite all of these efforts and initiatives in place it is heartbreaking to see so many teachers leave education for higher paying jobs
• Many teachers are fighting to have a good livelihood with their salaries
• ChatGPT recommended competitive compensation as the most important thing to retain teachers in Texas

 

Tommy Evans—Abilene ISD

• Compensation doesn’t match the tasks that teachers are asked to cover everyday
• The caseload has gone from about 100 students to 150 students per teacher
• They are entering a classroom with seats for 20 students, but he has 36-42 in many classes
• They do not go to the profession for the high salary but even then, it just isn’t enough to keep this up
• Provide them with support for programs that help with social and emotional learning
• Raise their wages
• Include the incentive rollout to have all subjects
• Compensate them for extra duties and professional training
• Decrease their caseloads by at least half
• Address student discipline intervention practices
• Ban the use of electronic devices in the classroom; it is difficult to teach distracted learners with cellphones in their hands

 

Q&A –

• Frank – Can you explain the teacher pay per pupil?
  • Hollingsworth – In 2001 teacher salaries per pupil is 43.8% and in 2021 teacher salaries per pupil is 38.1%
• Frank – The percentage of funds spent for teachers has gone down is what that means; mission creep point is correct because other professionals have been hired
  • Hollingsworth – Correct the funds spent for teachers has gone down
• Frank – If we made sure the percentage of money paid to teachers was good then there would not be as much mission creep
  • Hollingsworth – It doesn’t really work to limit administrative costs; the only thing that he has seen that works is making sure that a mechanism is in place to put a pass-through pay raise with it
• Hawkins – All teachers aren’t good teachers so there is always a concern with giving them such a big raise
  • Evans – There is an evaluation system to address that
• Hawkins – Stop saying give teachers a $15,000 increase because a school is a business and performance is a big part of that; we need to make sure we aren’t paying bad teachers good money
• Hawkins – It really boils down to the district size, enrollment, attendance rate and a lot of factors
• Hawkins – Let’s look at how we begin to compensate people fairly for what they are doing, their performance and their engagement in the community
  • Hollingsworth – They made proposals to give districts a tool other than student growth measurements to allocate who should get the allotments
• Hawkins – So extra duty pay?
  • Hollingsworth – There are many things that are more concrete than using student growth to measure teacher efficacy
  • We need to be rewarding the fine arts teachers and pe teachers as well
  • If you are going to expand the TIA, then make it so that any teacher can get it
• Hawkins – So we have a mechanism right now and can fine tune that?
  • Hollingsworth – It needs to be more than fine-tuned but yes
  • Burleson – We are trying to go from A-E in the list of steps right now with this
  • Giving a raise to all teachers while taking the risk of giving a bad teacher a raise is needed right now while the rest of the system works to improve over time
  • We are hurting for teachers, period
  • If we are trying to make a judgement between no teacher at all or a teacher that isn’t perfectly qualified, we still need a teacher and can work towards qualifying them further
• Hawkins – Thinks the supports are there and wants to focus on teacher salary
  • Burleson – Currently debates with her husband about whether they can afford thick slices of bacon or not
  • They need more money for all teachers in general to start
• Hawkins – What is the sweet spot number, or have you even thought about it?
  • Velicias – There are bad doctors or physicians that make the same amount of money and then the better ones get significantly more benefits
  • The salary needs to be raised for everyone because teachers are being underpaid
  • Her classroom grew 100% last year so she is getting some benefits
• Hawkins – Wants to get away from the individualized things and wants to be holistic
  • Evans – There needs to be a base raise and the allotment tends to fall on the administrators to go with what already exists
  • Those involved in the fine arts are the top ones in the schools and research shows it
  • It is not something that is easily tied into student outcomes
  • Rewarding things that are somewhat non-tangible is very difficult
• Hawkins – So would you be comfortable with a parent survey?
  • Evans – To a certain extent
  • Burleson – We are looking at something that takes multiple dimensions
  • Success cannot be measured with just an arbitrary test score, or graduation rate alone there needs to be a multitude of factors
  • TIA in theory is not necessarily a bad thing but is something that can be improved and aspired to down the road
  • In the meantime, we need measures to keep everyone going
• Buckley – Believes teacher incentive allotment can apply to all subjects taught
  • Hollingsworth – It is possible but is up to the district, so we need you to guarantee it to go to everybody
• Talarico – This is one of the wealthiest states in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and without teachers that is not possible; doesn’t understand why they can’t spend a bit of the record surplus they have or cut the loopholes in the budget and use a bit of that to make teacher salaries livable
  • Evans – Wishes Texas was #1 in education
• Talarico – Wishes that as well but we are near the bottom for that

 

Panel 5

Ken Gregorski—Katy ISD – Texas School Alliance

• TEA has proposed a refresh on the accountability rating system
• We should take a comprehensive look at the refresh
• A hold harmless or transition year is very important right now
• Hold harmless would help avoid negative consequences
• Points out on CCMR, MR points out military readiness not military enlisted
• CCMR changes should be phased in with the new incoming students and not those already in classes
• STAAR results are too heavily weighted
• The assessment should precede and not coincide with the changes in accountability, they should not happen at the same time
• High school students are over tested and removed STAAR tests that are not required would be a good step
• Yesterday heard about through year testing, recommends creating an advisory committee on through year testing
• Need to vet ESA in terms of accountability
• Expanding and offering more opportunities in schools is important

 

 

Leslie Watson—North Lamar ISD

• A school districts tier 1 funding is the main funding that is used
• That local funding is not always the actual amount that a school can collect
• The Comptrollers values are used to value the local fund assignment
• A school district can only collect property taxes by the values assigned to them
• There is a big gap in what school districts are allowed to collect even when the number should be much higher
• The need to raise the basic allotment is crucial
• Gervin-Hawkins – The property taxes are a bit outside of their charge
  • When you are losing a large portion of your tier 1 funding then they are not able to give the same quality or equal education as other students in other districts
  • Trying to improve students’ outcomes but having to cut teachers and having large class sizes makes it difficult
• Hawkins – Any recommendations around accountability?
  • The funding issue is the issue including the basic allotment

 

Principal Elizabeth Dickey—Rosedale School

• Supporting special education teachers and teaching staff is the way to support schools in Texas in general
• They serve students with significant medical needs, social and behavioral needs, 18+ students with disabilities who are working on getting ready for life after public school
• Every public school district in this state works with special education
• We are in a crisis for special education staffing
• There has not been one year in her 15 years where they have been fully staffed
• That is very typical for schools in Texas because they are hard positions to fill
• There is a very high level of training and skill that is required to teach in those classrooms
• Texas has underfunded special education by about $2b, which means students do not have what they need, and students are the focus
• Special education services being funded makes the rest of the school work
• When positions are vacant the entire school doesn’t work
• Every teacher wonders when they will need to step in to help
• The majority of teachers she has worked with in the past have had two full time jobs
• People don’t want to think that their teacher is serving steak at a dinner place to try and keep themselves afloat

 

Bruce Gearing – Superintendent of Leander ISD

• Fast growth district adding about 1k students a year, 200 sq miles
• Believe job is to help prepare students for anything
• Asked community what are their hopes and dreams for students, strategic plan developed and then community based accountability
• There is more to accountability; reviews strategic plan and community based accountability
  • Looking to eliminate barrier to access
• 87% of budget in people, teacher and support staff
• If funding goes down then lose people and connection

 

Q&A –

• Ashby – The difficulty with the tax collected and the Comptroller evaluation is important; help us fix the problem
  • Watson – It blows his mind that the state is ok with taking money that is spent for students’ education to make the local appraisal district raise property values
  • This is the first year that they have been out of compliance, but they were given no grace period
• Ashby – The local appraisal district never told you that you were out of compliance?
  • Watson – No they were told by their financial advisor and were not given any warning about the money that they were going to lose
  • They passed the audit in 2020 so they did not audit in 2021 but in 2022 there was a raise of 18% locally and the state raised it by 44%; at that time there was a huge difference between the state and the county appraisals
  • They lost $2.8m in collections
  • 80% of their budget is payroll so losing that money was impactful
• Ashby – In your case and many of your colleagues’ cases you just want to see the money that you are lawfully entitled to most of all; when he goes back and talks to people the prevailing thought is why is somebody sitting in Austin Texas telling locals what their property evaluations are
• Ashby – There needs to be a mechanism to make sure that properties are valued appropriately
  • Watson – Their local property appraisal never had any communications with the Comptroller’s office
  • School districts being punished for something they have no control over is not right
• Ashby – Wants to look into it and give them as much support as possible
• Hinojosa – Gearing has put extra emphasis on extracurricular activities for his kids and taking away the barriers from them; why are they important to you?
  • Gearing – They believe that each and every individual and student in the district is critical so connecting them to their interests and passions is important
  • Having that opportunity within school is a game changer
  • It is not equitable that we are leaving groups of children behind
  • Figuring out how to remove the barriers to let them be successful is our responsibility
  • It is important to know that not everywhere does it this way
• Hinojosa – Wants Dickey to explain the importance of the population of kids that are at Rosedale school
  • Dickey – Cognitive disabilities is the big umbrella at Rosedale
  • Many students are nonverbal and depend on staff for physical activities
  • They work with a lot of students on the spectrum that have significant challenges with sensory experiences
  • Those students with social and behavioral needs go to them to get away from other campuses
  • They get to see their students learn to walk and use walkers and tell their parents they don’t like mashed potatoes
  • Their 18+ programs have a higher employment rate than people in Texas with disabilities in general
  • Their students with medical needs are fragile and most years they have lost at least 1 student to their medical situation
• Hinojosa – It is quite expensive to provide this kind of education and it is important that we choose to spend the money for them instead of casting them off
• Hinojosa – Thanks her for the 15 years that she put into that school and the children that went there
• Bell – When you found out in 2018 that you weren’t going to meet the requirements that you then reached out to the appraisal district and that was the first time you got notified; in the past there was an opportunity for districts to hire an attorney and put together a plan
  • Watson – In 2018 they passed the property value study, and they passed in 2020 so they didn’t do the study in 2021 so 2022 was the first year they didn’t meet the property value threshold
  • Called TEA and couldn’t get anything from them
  • Was told there is no grace period if they are below the 90% ratio, and they were at about 83%
• Bell – So it was because there was a two-year gap
  • Watson – Correct
• Bell – What did you have to do once you found out?
  • Watson – They took it out of fund balance and since it is still not up they are losing nearly $2m next year as well meaning they have to adopt another deficit budget
  • Without support they will enter a crisis because they cannot continuously enter deficit budgets
  • Teachers or programs get cut due to these losses and students can no longer get quality education
• Bell – What is your appraisal districts plan?
  • Watson – They got it within 5% of what the state property value came out in January so they will find out if the state went up again
  • More than likely, it will go up, so they plan to keep pushing
• Bell – Do you have an elected collector?
  • Watson – We do not collect the tax they do
• Bell – You no longer set the tax rate TEA does that; the certified tax role is done by the appraisal district in your county
  • Watson – Yes, we are just given the rate
• Bell – So you have no control over the Comptroller evaluations and no control over the collection
  • Watson – Correct
• Bell – There is no correlation between your revenues and your tax collections at all
  • Watson – Correct
• Bell – You will have to have a bigger fund balance to make that cash flow work so at the end of the day with what we are talking about you can’t provide an equal educational opportunity for the students in your district

 

Panel 6

Stacy Combest, Chair – Texas Commission on Special Education Funding

• We have addressed the needs of our SpEd students very well
• A one size fits all approach is never appropriate
• Our 14 recommendations received almost all unanimous votes
• Recommend transition from settings formula to service intensity based formula
• Increase per mile reimbursement rate for transportation
• Cover retire-rehire penalty
• Establish target grant programs for certification in exchange for certain commitment for certain number of years
• Fund salary stipends
• Increase CCMR
• Maintain current funding levels for dyslexia and autism
• Increase TEA authority to monitor non-public facilities
• Recommend establish grants for non-public day programs
• Consider educational savings accounts: We recognize that it is not the commissions responsibility, it is your responsibility to determine if Texas is ready for a program like this

 

Jennifer Allmon—Texas Catholic Conference of Bishops

• Providing context for previous discussions in the hearing
• Catholic Schools are older than the Texas public school system
• Accreditation was transferred from TEA to private schools, because it became too expensive for TEA to run accreditation
• Commissioner Morath has provided annual approval of non-public accreditation
• This is a peer-reviewed process (Baptists review us. They are very careful in their review)
• Transparency is provided to the parents, there has been no reason for the data to be compiled in one place. We are willing to discuss providing more accreditation data to the public
• Our admissions staff would work with parents to make sure that we meet needs of students and parents
• Many schools in the choice system have restrictive admissions policies
• We want to see increases in educational opportunities, we have a difference in perspective on the correct strategy
• Parents deserve to make decisions for their students
• High stakes testing and overregulation are problems for public schools, we should not implement them onto private schools
• We need strong accountability and strong protection for parents students and schools
• We want to partner with you to provide educational opportunities for students who need them

 

Robert LeGros—Principal, Cathedral School of St. Mary

• Support of parental choice legislation
• Serving children for 157 years
• We have 142 students, average salary 30-40k per year
• Some parents work two jobs to send their kids to our school
• Only 32 of our students pay full tuition, so we rely on donations and fundraisers
• An ESA would relieve the burden on hardworking parents
• Parents are happy with their students’ learning environment at St. Mary’s
• Many students come to our school several grade levels behind
• We had one student move up three grade levels in reading in only ten months
• We have a full-time learning specialist who works with special needs students
• 100% of our graduates are accepted to the high school of their choice
• I often hear of people who would like to send their children to our school
• I wish that every student who wishes to attend our school would be given the opportunity to do so

 

Q&A

• Gervin-Hawkins- what are your teacher requirements?

• • LeGros- we require a bachelor’s degree and teaching certificate. They can enroll in courses to get a certification.

• Gervin-Hawkins- Do you do background checks?

• • LeGros- We use the do not hire registry and a background check service

• Gervin-Hawkins- what is your curriculum?

• • LeGros- we align with the TEKS

• Ashby- You mentioned the SpEd population being eligible for an SSLC. Can you speak more to that?

• • Combest- We have a high-cost pool of sped students. They are outliers. Some are too severe to be cared for in a full residential placement in our 6 facilities. I have had nine sped students whose parents have contacted me for help to get them into an SSLC. One was in a San Antonio jail, and one was tied to a gurney. Some cannot be cared for by private facilities because they are not equipped for them.

• Buckley- You talked about one recommendation is to consider an ESA for special needs children. Could you go through the benefits and concerns?

• • Combest- I put a lot of thought into this. It is a type of educational option that is within our statutory charge. We went after low-hanging fruit, but we also wanted to consider ESAs. Is this even something that Texas can do at this time? I believe that the benefits are that it is a parental option. My concerns are that I would want our legislatures to continue to deliberate and not fall back on posturing. I believe you should address that if there is a third party, it will need to be monitored. I believe it could be a win, but it will take a lot of work

• Buckley- I agree, this is a contentious issue. We have to be concerned about what is best for kids. Many parents are concerned about special ed issues. I would like to hear the pros and cons of a child going from a private to a public environment.

• • Combest- We heard good things from Florida. How do we address not losing our procedural protections under the IDA? How do we address not losing the Child Find protection? We heard a lot of testimony on the need to increase the salaries of teachers and professionals. A type of private or homeschool may be best for a child with special needs

• Buckley- The reality is that good options are limited. If you are in a community that doesn’t have many options. And I agree with the problem of funding in special education. I appreciate your work on that. I think that all needs to be part of our discussion.
• Buckley- Could you speak to the demographic makeup of Catholic Schools?

• • Allman- around 70% are students of color. Around 50% are on scholarship.

• Buckley- What is the seat capacity right now?

• • Allman- we have about 20,000 empty seats. The average is a little over 100 open seats per school. We believe our capacity will continue to grow. It takes 4-5 years to open a Catholic school due to accreditation, sustainability, hiring etc. St. Peter’s technical academy had to close because it wasn’t financially solvent. We are reopening it now that we are prepared to sustain it better.

• Buckley- How many Catholic school closures in the past 10 Years?

• • Allman- about 20 since 2014, most of those occurred due to COVID. Some of those are on the slate for reopening in the future. They will be opened in different models.

• Buckley- We know that the number of kids receiving special ed is growing. Can you talk about special ed services offered at Catholic schools?

• • Allman- about 11% of Catholic school students are special needs. When we evaluate our ability to accept a student it is determined by our ability to meet needs. We can probably accept 2800 special needs students out of the 20,000 open seats. Our Bishops are looking to hire special needs specialists. We believe in holistic education. We recognized that many students came back from COVID with severe anxiety, so we hired counselors to help students adjust. We deal with social emotional parts of SpEd students. Some schools are able to do amazing things like Notre Dame in Dallas
  • LeGros- We have seen an increase in special needs students. We hired a learning specialist. We receive title 1 federal funding, so we have tutoring support. We create individual plans for SpEd students

• Buckley- So some Catholic schools receive public funds in Title 1? I was not aware of that

• • Allman- That is true, most diocese determine whether or not they want to participate. We participate in government funding if we can operate autonomously and remain true to our Catholic Mission. Our Bishops make that decision

• Buckley- What is a Bishop’s purview?

• • Allman- Bishops have ultimate authority in their diocese. Each Bishop addresses the need in their diocese and makes a determination.

• Buckley- Does the federal acceptance require you to be in compliance with IDEA?

• • Allman- No, it does not. At this point in our nations history, we prefer to be independent of government regulations.

• Hinojosa- You don’t use the term special education? You use special needs?

• • Allman- Yes, we feel that special needs is more appropriate for viewing students as a whole person. Special needs is a student who needs more assistance than the average student, it is a broader range than special education. Our process is a less adversarial process to the public schools. Some parents feel that the public system is adversarial.

• Hinojosa- Part of the reason for that is that you don’t have to cover certain rights?

• • Allman- we view it as a responsibility. If we cannot meet certain criteria, we tell them we can’t and if a parent makes a decision that they want to come to our school anyway, we allow them.

• Hinojosa- How many schools were closed in the past ten years due to failure to meet accreditation requirements?

• • Allman- we haven’t closed any. Once a school has a deficiency, they are placed on a plan and have all been fixed.

• Hinojosa- How often does that happen?

• • Allman- there are reviews every 7 years unless there is a complaint. If there is a problem, we fix it. If something in a report from the school is a red flag, we will discuss with the school. There is annual monitoring

• Hinojosa- Does the accreditation report have achievement in it?

• • LeGros- There are five different domains. One is on academic standards. We are required to show that we meet all the benchmarks. The diocese themselves gets the reports from standardized testing that is done three times per year.
  • Allman- view the diocese as a district and us at the Conference as the TEA. Diocese runs background checks as well

• Hinojosa- It seems like you aren’t looking at achievement?

• • Allman- we are looking at quality based indicators. We evaluate teachers in the same way that public schools do.

• Hinojosa- in our system, our districts have to provide testing and graduation rates. It sounds like your school doesn’t have to prove that.

• • LeGros- we do have to report standardized testing and scores yearly. All scores go directly to the diocese and are evaluated by the superintendent.
  • Allman- the accreditation commission is made up of independent members and superintendents. Standardized scores are submitted to the accreditation commission through superintendents.

• Hinojosa- I hear you saying different things. I thought the superintendent monitors scores not the commission? The accreditation commission is not evaluating that. What do they do with the achievement data?

• • Allman- the data is provided to the commission. Our program is not a sanction-based model. Parents leave private schools that are bad. We improve our schools when they have deficiencies.

• Hinojosa- As a Catholic, I have concerns about faith when it comes to vouchers. A study found that there is a drop in Catholic School participation of about 30%

• • Allman- I think there are a lot of reasoning behind that. There are economic reasons that tuition has gone up and made it less affordable. Regardless of what happens with vouchers, we are looking to lower our tuition to make ourselves more affordable. Catholic schools perform better than any state did on NAEP

• Hinojosa- If you can choose students who you believe will succeed, its not an apples-to-apples comparison.

• • Allman- no it isn’t, but most students start Catholic school when they are in pre-k and kindergarten where it is hard to determine success.

• Hinojosa- At risk kids, like homeless students, are not the kids in your schools?

• • Allman- You are correct, but that doesn’t mean we don’t serve underserved children. The Catholic Church serves the homeless in many different ways. We are not everything and we can’t be everything, but we have something to contribute.

• Hinojosa- My point is that it isn’t fair to compare you to public schools

• • Allman- we do serve a large number of students in poverty and you have heard our demographics. We do serve challenging students

• Hinojosa- The national bureau of economic research shows that vouchers are now a dominant source of income for Catholic schools in Milwaukee. Vouchers cause a decline in Church donations and spending and diminishes religious activities. Some of us are afraid of government churches. I would ask the diocese to think about what the tradeoff is when you get government money.

• • Allman- Obviously we do think of that. In some diocese we have refused to accept government funding. Vouchers would probably cost us money. We have to pay the delta between what it costs to teach a student and what we get paid. Some schools will refuse to participate in this program because they don’t want to deal with the bureaucracy. Often, there is no bump in Catholic School enrollment when School Choice is implemented. This is a solution for parents not for us.

• Talarico- what is the achievement standard you have to meet in the accreditation process?

• • Allman- we don’t measure it as a standard.
  • LeGros- Are you referring to academic outcomes? I couldn’t give you the exact number, I would have to look at the accreditation commission.

• Talarico- I’m worried that you cannot give that standard

• • Allman- that’s not really my role. I’m not part of the accreditation commission
  • LeGros- I couldn’t give you an exact score. Students have to meet a passing score of 70 percentile of academic requirements of each subject. I have not been in a position where we have been accredited warned. If I was in that situation, then I would be warned.

• Talarico- How many students have to meet that standard?

• • LeGros- We haven’t had to deal with that
  • Allman- I don’t think it is a major concern because our students don’t fall that low

• Talarico- at what point would it be taken away? What are the issues that could be identified?

• • LeGros- first we would be put on a warning list.

• Talarico- we would need to be mindful of where taxpayer money is going
• Talarico- Some of us think there has to be a balance between parental rights and taxpayer rights. There are not protections and accountability. Would the diocese support a voucher for homeschooling?

• • Allman- yes. We think that the bills that have included homeschool would have safeguards in place. The money from ESAs would go to approved curriculum. We only support academic accountability, but we do not have a position on testing. How a homeschool family uses an ESA is extremely different than how a private school family uses an ESA, so I am not qualified to speak to that

• Talarico- I am not sure what guardrails you support?

• • Allman- HB 8 had guardrails that we support. I don’t think you would support a bill even with guardrails.

• Talarico- I support allowing private schools to become charter schools
• Talarico- You want taxpayer money and we are asking for accountability. Every time we press you on this you say: they can leave. You are being careless about students missing a year due to learning loss. I think if a child is not served by your school, I need to know what is going to happen to your school.

• • Allman- I think I’ve provided more answers than they can leave. We have supported test scores being published and norm reference testing. The legislature can put in changes if the program doesn’t work.

• Talarico- Publics schools are underfunded. Even to catch up to 2019 we need a $1k BA increase

• • Allman- we absolutely support increased funding for public schools. All the money in these bills were new dollars, we are not taking public school money

• Talarico- I haven’t had a witness this difficult all day. Do you think we should pay public schools before we start vouchers?

• • Allman- we are not experts on public schools. I can’t speak for what’s appropriate in public school funding. That is for this committee to determine.

• Talarico- I think it would be responsible for you to support funding for public schools, first
• Frank- With food stamps, we give people money and let them spend money on food wherever. It seems like we trust parents less than people on food stamps. Government does a great job of protecting the rights of special needs students. The people who complain about special needs rights are special needs parents. Why would a parent would leave a government run school to go to a place without those rights?

• • Combest- because they are not getting the help they need
  • Allman- Parents know that moving schools is hard. They are discerning that it is better for their child to make that choice. If we gave public schools tomorrow 20 Billion, it doesn’t fix any problems this year. If we give money to parents, they can fix the needs of their child, today, while we fix public ed. Parents won’t walk away from a good program.

• Frank- Why are we so worried about accreditation when we don’t like the process we have? There are many reasons people homeschool. Do I want them to have good curriculum? Yeah Do I want to give state funding to ensure that? Yeah.
• Frank- 80% of kids are in Public Ed. We can be for all kids, we don’t have to be team public school.
• Talarico- I’m not going to be lectured about being pro-kid. This legislature can’t talk about being for all kids when it underfunds education. I’m talking about catching us up. I’m not going to take you seriously as being for all kids. When this State underfunds public education and comes up with a new idea to siphon money to private schools and we wonder how we got there. My track record is pretty clear on being pro kid.
• Hinojosa- I get passionate because I’m talking about 5.4 million kids. We are going to put in a third underfunded system and we are going to take money from 5.4 million kids. We are talking about hurting the vast majority of kids for a few to access private education. It is different from food stamps. If we promised everyone food and then said that some people get food stamps to eat at an exclusive restaurant. That is an appropriate comparison. Every time a child leaves, that is one less student for per student funding.
• Hinojosa- I want to ask about the special ed commission. I think the real problem in special ed is the 2.4 billion dollars of underfunding. Maybe if we fill the deficit then we would address these challenges. Why didn’t you mention that in your report?

• • Combest- personally I would not take my child out of public school, thinking about funding. I took Meghan out due to the decision to do away with phonics. When she returned to public school in 4^th grade, she was reading at a 5^th grade level. People don’t leave to take money from public schools. I do believe we should increase funding. I am very proud of the report. The focus is on a child, not the funding for the overall system. I considered everyone on the commission, I’m not a legislator and I really do care.

• Hinojosa- What we keep hearing is the funding gap is a giant challenge, why didn’t you include it?

• • Combest- I don’t know that I could give a good answer on that

• Bell- do we have any additional hearings on this matter

• • Buckley- these are the last two
• Bell- This is about the kids. Are we gonna fully fund kids? I think we should have $7300 for a BA. We need to work on our accountability system. We worked on this, but it died. We need to work as a legislature to get to that place. Whatever we come up with on the backside, we have to fix virtual and property value studies. That is happening in the moment. We have come to this place for the opportunity to be transformational. I appreciate Chairman Buckley’s leadership. You have opened the door to have all these discussions to empower parents for what is in the best interests of kids. There is no greater thing we could do than to get this figured out. We have a fiscal responsibility to our taxpayers and our kids.
• Buckley- I want all the members of this committee to submit their recommendations and we will compile those in a transparent and open process. This discussion brought forth energy. What resonates is that we must raise the Basic Allotment. I think that the accountability system needs to be addressed. We need a system that informs our parents and doesn’t beat the tar out of our schools again. Parents choose to change schools are for a variety of reasons, but we need to enable parents to make those decisions. Our work is just beginning.